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Thread: Disagreement on PF

  1. #1
    Murder Machine, Harmless Fuzzball TCinVA's Avatar
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    Disagreement on PF

    As you will probably recall, we recently had a Festivus for the forum where grievances could be aired. This post is one of the consequences of that thread...

    The mission of pistol-forum.com is to serve as a professional resource for the exchange of information and ideas on the use of the pistol (and other firearms) in self defense, in an armed profession, and in competition. Through the respectful exchange of concepts and information we hope to be a resource that everyone from the accomplished professional to the relative novice can use to refine their ideas and practices to produce the best possible results for their situation.
    That is the mission statement for Pistol-Forum.com. Our goal from the outset was to have a place where seekers of knowledge could congregate and exchange ideas and perspectives, leaving everybody better off for having been exposed to them even if they didn't always agree.

    We've always hoped that people would be reasonable and interact with one another with a charitable spirit, and the vast majority of people have done precisely that.

    Every now and then, however, somebody will show up and begin speaking well beyond their ability to back it up with knowledge and experience. There have been examples where people with limited or absolutely no relevant experience whatsoever have made some truly silly statements...often in direct contradiction to people with a solid background speaking well within their realm of expertise. This exasperates the people with valuable knowledge to contribute and those who want to know more. Part of the frustration comes from the thought that we, as staff, want everyone to play nicely together.

    That is not our primary goal.

    Our primary goal is reflected in the mission statement for the forum...to be an informational resource. People who insist on speaking beyond their ability to back it up hinder the raison d'être of this forum.

    Let's state it plainly: Every opinion is not equally valuable. When someone decides to express an ill-considered opinion or stupid idea, it's perfectly reasonable for those who have better information to confront it. If the person putting forth that opinion is unable to behave reasonably in defense of their opinion, it's perfectly valid to call them on it as well. Note that the call-out process might not be gentle...nor do we expect it to be.

    We aren't looking for bar-room brawls where people are needlessly abusive to those who are sincerely seeking information. Being needlessly abusive to people doesn't make somebody cool or edgy, it makes them look like a douche even if they are technically correct on the point they are trying to make. We are also un-interested in coddling idiots and boobs who insist on shotgunning their ignorance across our forums. The stickiest problem is when it's kind of in the middle, when people who have a reasonable position based on different experiences disagree on something and get somewhat heated in the presentation of their opinion. It happens, but generally I think that you the membership are plenty reasonable enough to spot when there's something solid behind someone's position vs. someone who is just a gaping maw of ignorance and stupidity hell-bent on making themselves heard. I'm confident that members of staff are able to discern the difference as well, and if someone insists on being that kind of obnoxious presence we will show them the door.

    We do not expect knowledgeable members (whether they have an SME label or not) to be gentle with idiots. The only caution I'd offer here is that there are people on this forum who are legitimately experts in all sorts of areas...so it behooves everybody to make a deliberate effort to keep within the boundaries of their own knowledge because whatever the topic, somebody on this forum can slice you to ribbons on it PDQ.

    In the Festivus thread it was clear that a sizeable chunk of the membership felt constrained in the face of stupidity. This is the staff telling you that you aren't. We don't expect people to be needlessly abusive, but being frank or even blunt is perfectly reasonable. Just be aware that others can be just as frank and blunt in dealing with you if you wander into silliness. You can probably bet on our SME's being pretty blunt when they're speaking in their area of expertise as well. We do not expect a guy who has spent the last 15 years on combat deployments all over the world or who has been running SWAT teams and defensive tactics programs for large law enforcement agencies for years to wet-nurse people who are being stupid.

    We're all adults and should be able to handle a blunt exchange without getting our feelings too hurt about it...and if feelings are hurt, staff is not here to kiss away boo-boos. They are here to protect the forum's primary mission as an informational resource.
    3/15/2016

  2. #2
    Member Al T.'s Avatar
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    Excellent!

  3. #3
    Chasing the Horizon RJ's Avatar
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    Cool.

    I come here for straight talk and good advice, and I'm 100% ok with the above.

  4. #4
    Member
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    Let's state it plainly: Every opinion is not equally valuable. When someone decides to express an ill-considered opinion or stupid idea, it's perfectly reasonable for those who have better information to confront it. If the person putting forth that opinion is unable to behave reasonably in defense of their opinion, it's perfectly valid to call them on it as well. Note that the call-out process might not be gentle...nor do we expect it to be.
    If all forums would adopt that philosophy the internet accurate information factor would probably go up by at least 200%. I've gotten to the point where I have absolutely no patience with forums where you can say pretty much what you want in spite of having no knowledge of the subject, but then the mods get on to those who point out you have no idea what you are talking about because it might hurt somebody elses feelings. Pathetic.
    "PLAN FOR YOUR TRAINING TO BE A REFLECTION OF REAL LIFE INSTEAD OF HOPING THAT REAL LIFE WILL BE A REFLECTION OF YOUR TRAINING!"

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by TCinVA View Post
    We do not expect knowledgeable members (whether they have an SME label or not) to be gentle with idiots.
    Epic. Total sig line material.

    And I promise not to treat it like the moral equivalent of a deer tag...


    Okie John

  6. #6
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    That's a pretty fine post, Tim.

  7. #7
    Member BaiHu's Avatar
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    Professionally well put and well timed. Great being able to listen in to so many experienced professionals.
    Fairness leads to extinction much faster than harsh parameters.

  8. #8
    Supporting Business NH Shooter's Avatar
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    Such are the perils of trying to learn something meaningful on Internet forums: many seemingly authoritative statements presented by those with suspect authority.

    As a relative newcomer to P-F, I would like to make a simple suggestion: those who wish to speak with authority, please fill out your bio!

    Some of those making such statements are well-known in the community and perhaps can skip the bio entry. Some offer a useful (and appreciated) degree of knowledge, yet are not well-known and have nothing in their bio sections. One such participant here uses his real name so a Google search quickly found his credentials and added context to his posts. Yet others speak with authority but use a typical Internet screen name, place "Anywhere, USA" or some other nebulous phrase in their location and have nothing at all entered in their bio. Sorry, but I'm left no other choice but to ignore these people, especially when they present themselves in an arrogant, know-it-all manner.

    Such is the nature of Internet forums and the mix of expertise and flatulence one must sort through to find meaningful information. Posting a relevant/accurate bio will help others better understand your perspective.

  9. #9
    Member Rich@CCC's Avatar
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    Youngstown, OH
    A refreshing attitude in a forum. Most these day seem to be at one end or the other of the extreme. No real moderation or so PC and milquetoast that you can't speak your mind without fear of banishment.

    Now I just hope I can keep my silliness to a minimum(it would help if I actually had any expertise to speak of). I hate getting beat up by the SMEs!
    TANSTAAFL

    Managing Partner, Custom Carry Concepts, LLC

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