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Thread: Why a shotgun?

  1. #21
    Site Supporter NH Shooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianB View Post
    The whole reason this came up is because I can get an AR for about the same as a tactical shotgun and it seems like the AR is more bang for the buck.
    As long as you don't live in a place where serious neutering is required to own one, then yes. But a good, reliable SG is still a lot less $$ then a good, reliable AR.

    BTW, if you're looking for justification to spend the $$ on a quality AR, you should just go for it. Be advised though that they are money pits - unlike most shotguns, few ARs are left unaccessorized: you can never have too many mags, too much ammo, too good of an optic, too good of a rail, etc. Be prepared for the massive sucking sound of money being pulled from your wallet! ;-)

  2. #22
    S.M.E., STAFF, Very Pro Dentist, Chuck Haggard's Avatar
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    If one has a shotgun that works for the job then often, IMHO, there is little need for an AR unless one wants one.

    Mission drives the gear train..........

    I know several guys who are avid bird hunters and VERY proficient with a shotgun. They probably should stick with what they know.

    Other guys I know have been military and have experience with the AR15/M16 FOWs and zero with the gauge. They shouldn't get a shotgun unless they are wanting to get some time in on the system.

    I know lots of rural folks for whom the shotgun is a ballistic multi tool, good for bad guys, bird hunting, recreation, and coyotes trying to get the chickens/cats/pups. For this sort of thing a shotgun with a couple of extra barrels is a superb choice.
    I know at least half a dozen folks that have a quality pump gun with the first couple of rounds on tap being high brass #4s, followed by OO buck. Not a bad set-up for the mission they have at their home.

    If one has none of those concerns then an AR can make compete sense.



    Even though I am a former SWAT guy, have a personally owned patrol rifle on the books that goes to work every day, I am a carbine instructor, and have almost 40 years of experience with the AR system, my first go-to home long gun is a wood stocked Mossberg 500. I've got almost as much time on the Mossbergs, we carry those at work in all of our cars, I bird and small game hunt with a shotgun. and frankly, appearance can matter.

    Anything I shoot a bad guy with will be locked up in evidence for a good while. If the bad guy I shot was a gang banger or has friends/relatives/whatever that are now angry at my for shooting him then I'd rather still have the AR at home at that point.

    Most of my home defensive chores would likely fall to my handguns at any rate, just due to portability. Then there is seeing who is at the front door, which gets a little dicey to do when armed with a long gun.

  3. #23
    Not really justification. It just occurred to me that for the money the shotgun is not such a good all round deal. I was looking at 1000 dollar semi tactical shotguns. I already have an 870. Im not much of a collector. Everything I have is purpose driven.
    Quote Originally Posted by NH Shooter View Post
    As long as you don't live in a place where serious neutering is required to own one, then yes. But a good, reliable SG is still a lot less $$ then a good, reliable AR.

    BTW, if you're looking for justification to spend the $$ on a quality AR, you should just go for it. Be advised though that they are money pits - unlike most shotguns, few ARs are left unaccessorized: you can never have too many mags, too much ammo, too good of an optic, too good of a rail, etc. Be prepared for the massive sucking sound of money being pulled from your wallet! ;-)

  4. #24
    Good points. Thank you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Haggard View Post
    If one has a shotgun that works for the job then often, IMHO, there is little need for an AR unless one wants one.

    Mission drives the gear train..........

    I know several guys who are avid bird hunters and VERY proficient with a shotgun. They probably should stick with what they know.

    Other guys I know have been military and have experience with the AR15/M16 FOWs and zero with the gauge. They shouldn't get a shotgun unless they are wanting to get some time in on the system.

    I know lots of rural folks for whom the shotgun is a ballistic multi tool, good for bad guys, bird hunting, recreation, and coyotes trying to get the chickens/cats/pups. For this sort of thing a shotgun with a couple of extra barrels is a superb choice.
    I know at least half a dozen folks that have a quality pump gun with the first couple of rounds on tap being high brass #4s, followed by OO buck. Not a bad set-up for the mission they have at their home.

    If one has none of those concerns then an AR can make compete sense.



    Even though I am a former SWAT guy, have a personally owned patrol rifle on the books that goes to work every day, I am a carbine instructor, and have almost 40 years of experience with the AR system, my first go-to home long gun is a wood stocked Mossberg 500. I've got almost as much time on the Mossbergs, we carry those at work in all of our cars, I bird and small game hunt with a shotgun. and frankly, appearance can matter.

    Anything I shoot a bad guy with will be locked up in evidence for a good while. If the bad guy I shot was a gang banger or has friends/relatives/whatever that are now angry at my for shooting him then I'd rather still have the AR at home at that point.

    Most of my home defensive chores would likely fall to my handguns at any rate, just due to portability. Then there is seeing who is at the front door, which gets a little dicey to do when armed with a long gun.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Cunningham View Post
    I would LOVE to hear about any actual Heat-like hostage situation shots that an armed citizen pulled off. I have no idea if this ever happens in the real world.
    Can't speak to "hostage" situations but Claude Werner has an extensive list of self defense shootings where family members were down range of the shooter. It looks fairly common even going by casual reviews of news articles and the Armed Citizen.

    Noted that this is different than the precise situation you're talking about, but it's relevant. Also noted that it doesn't keep me from leaning an 870 in the corner.

  6. #26
    Same relevance. The wad is a consideration, as is the pattern.
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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by JodyH View Post
    Can you show me a single home defense AAR where 9 rounds of #00 would not have sufficed? Obvious drug dealer rip-off invasions excepted.
    I just don't see the capacity and reload arguments as being relevant to home defense.
    Overall, I agree with you. But you made me curious so I did some searching. If you Google "three home invaders", you'll get a truckload of results. I was surprised at how many.

    Here are a couple home invasions with 4 bad guys:
    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.1567059
    http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/home-inva...real-1.2006232 (Canuckistan)
    http://www.nbc15.com/news/headlines/...246932291.html

    And 5 home invaders:
    http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/...man_robbe.html
    http://www.gunssavelife.com/?p=12290
    http://q13fox.com/2014/09/16/masked-...l-whip-family/ ("four to six invaders")

    6 home invaders:
    http://www.thestate.com/2014/07/18/3...ns-scarey.html

    7 home invaders:
    http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion...rs_flat_footed (robbed him for his sneaker collection wtf)

    Even if you're attacked by a group of people, the odds of needing to shoot all four to seven crooks in a running gun battle are pretty much nil. In fact they'll probably run when the realize the home invasion turned into a gun fight, which supports Jody's assertion. But still, these stories about groups of home invaders make me want a high-cap HD gun. Do you guys agree that capacity and reloads don't need to be a major consideration for that role?

  8. #28
    S.M.E., STAFF, Very Pro Dentist, Chuck Haggard's Avatar
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    The shot wad can be dangerous quite a ways out.

    One reason why I always thought the "hostage rescue" shot with a shotgun was nothing more than a range stunt. But then I think pretty much the same for most similar range problems when using a handgun to solve it.

  9. #29
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen View Post

    Even if you're attacked by a group of people, the odds of needing to shoot all four to seven crooks in a running gun battle are pretty much nil. In fact they'll probably run when the realize the home invasion turned into a gun fight, which supports Jody's assertion. But still, these stories about groups of home invaders make me want a high-cap HD gun. Do you guys agree that capacity and reloads don't need to be a major consideration for that role?
    Yes, but if they're organized enough to run in a pack like that, then I'm also going to assume they're wearing soft body armor as well....in which case a 5.56 carbine makes a whole lot of sense over a shotgun....high-cap or not.

    IIRC Chuck had mentioned a growing trend of groups using body armor and cover tactics in home invasions.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  10. #30
    Site Supporter 5pins's Avatar
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    Regardless of how a jury in some states may view a shooting with a shotgun vs an AR, a pump action shotgun will be easier to purchase.

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