Why a shotgun?

[Unobtanium]

Uh....there are LOTS of studies looking at the effects of various intermediate barriers on different types of projectiles. In fact virtually every single valid study over the past 30 years by folks like the FBI BRF, JSWB_IPT, IWBA, etc... included that type of information.

For example, see: Roberts GK: “Law Enforcement General Purpose Shoulder Fired Weapons--The Wounding Effects 
of 5.56mm/.223 Carbines Compared With 12 ga. Shotguns and Pistol Caliber Weapons using 10% 
Ordnance Gelatin as a Tissue Simulant”. Wound Ballistics Review. 3(4):16-27, 1998.

Typically pistol caliber ammunition offers the deepest penetration after first going through an interior wall and hitting tissue; .223/5.56mm OTM ammo offers the least penetration in the same circumstance. Stay away from birdshot for defensive use and consider #1 buckshot.

I never did learn how to cite stuff APA style. I always used a formatter. I guess that's why I'm not an MD, too, lol!

That said, I know that traditionally you have been "against" #4 buckshot because some of the pellets fail to penetrate the full 12". My question is...what about the fact that there are a lot more of them? If, say, 25% fail to reach 12", and 75% do, you still put "20.25" pellets to the 12" mark, and it's not like the other "6.75" pellets were somehow rendered worthless for having hit.

Now, if weighing the shot on "one lone pellet", I'd agree fully, but I am curious, based on the data you have at hand, if on open-air shots you have seen real-world evidence that #4 isn't a good choice, or if it's an arbitrary decision based on gel data in the lab and the "12" minimum rule"?



Real world use:

[burntorangefan]

I'll begin by apologizing to the OP for inadvertently hijacking your thread...That being said, many thanks to all for the responses. My biggest problem is that my home layout has the master on one side of the house and the kids bedrooms literally on the other side of the house. All points of entry are between the two, so ANY potential situation inside the home involves my kids being in the field of fire, were it to escalate to that point. This is obviously highly disconcerting and makes me want to rethink the whole setup. As you've all noted, any round designed to do real damage to a human being will pass through typical home construction like butter. This was a much easier philosophical mental exercise before I had children. Now, I'm not sure I wouldn't prefer the Louisville Slugger from my youth.

All jokes aside, wonder if a 9mm PCC with subsonic ammo with lower FPS would at least mitigate the situation. I actually work in construction, so I may give some type of retrofit to the house consideration.

[Unobtanium]

I'll begin by apologizing to the OP for inadvertently hijacking your thread...That being said, many thanks to all for the responses. My biggest problem is that my home layout has the master on one side of the house and the kids bedrooms literally on the other side of the house. All points of entry are between the two, so ANY potential situation inside the home involves my kids being in the field of fire, were it to escalate to that point. This is obviously highly disconcerting and makes me want to rethink the whole setup. As you've all noted, any round designed to do real damage to a human being will pass through typical home construction like butter. This was a much easier philosophical mental exercise before I had children. Now, I'm not sure I wouldn't prefer the Louisville Slugger from my youth.

All jokes aside, wonder if a 9mm PCC with subsonic ammo with lower FPS would at least mitigate the situation. I actually work in construction, so I may give some type of retrofit to the house consideration.

No. It won't. #4 buckshot and a few book-cases are my advice. #4 may not get the Doc's approval, but I doubt anyone truly doubts its efficacy in a home-defense environment.

[Malamute]

I actually work in construction, so I may give some type of retrofit to the house consideration.

The gravel in walls could be used for an intermediate barrier to stop possible shot from reaching the kids side of the house, as you likely concluded. Using a hole saw in each bay, as done to retro insulation in would work. Filling 5 or so feet high would about do it. Repairing the plugs with hot patches or whatever the choice is for small repairs would work fairly simply. Just a thought. Shotgun shot may be less likely to penetrate the studs that are left as soft spots.

[burntorangefan]

The gravel in walls could be used for an intermediate barrier to stop possible shot from reaching the kids side of the house, as you likely concluded. Using a hole saw in each bay, as done to retro insulation in would work. Filling 5 or so feet high would about do it. Repairing the plugs with hot patches or whatever the choice is for small repairs would work fairly simply. Just a thought. Shotgun shot may be less likely to penetrate the studs that are left as soft spots.

I don't see pea gravel as the fix I had in mind, although if it was planned and designed for at the beginning it's an interesting idea.

[nalesq]

All jokes aside, wonder if a 9mm PCC with subsonic ammo with lower FPS would at least mitigate the situation. I actually work in construction, so I may give some type of retrofit to the house consideration.

If greater sectional density means greater penetration, then commercially available subsonic 9mm rounds, which are typically heavier, will probably actually penetrate more than lighter supersonic ones.

[BehindBlueI's]

I'll begin by apologizing to the OP for inadvertently hijacking your thread...That being said, many thanks to all for the responses. My biggest problem is that my home layout has the master on one side of the house and the kids bedrooms literally on the other side of the house. All points of entry are between the two, so ANY potential situation inside the home involves my kids being in the field of fire, were it to escalate to that point. This is obviously highly disconcerting and makes me want to rethink the whole setup. As you've all noted, any round designed to do real damage to a human being will pass through typical home construction like butter. This was a much easier philosophical mental exercise before I had children. Now, I'm not sure I wouldn't prefer the Louisville Slugger from my youth.

All jokes aside, wonder if a 9mm PCC with subsonic ammo with lower FPS would at least mitigate the situation. I actually work in construction, so I may give some type of retrofit to the house consideration.

Work the angles. Take a knee so your shot is angled up, for example. Not ideal, but sometimes you've got to work the floor plan you're dealt.

If'n it was me, I'd go with the AR and soft point ammo.

[Al T.]

Best hillbilly wall shooting article I've found:

http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/index.html

[Poconnor]

My old chief was against AR-15s for patrol and we used 9mm colt subguns until we showed him the tests that showed him how 9mm over penetrated.
I want to get a PCC carbine just for training
. I have both an AR and a 870 for home defense.
I remember talking to some guys that were taking metal metal exterior doors; removing any insulation and filling them with gravel and expanding foam. They shot one and said it was pretty effective.
I wish we would start a home hardening thread. Many if these ideas are best done when built. I have thought about building a house and putting earth bags in the interior walls for thermal mass, bullet protection. Nice Thick walks. I visited an adobe home once and it was very impressive and I never forgot about it.

[SeriousStudent]

.....

I wish we would start a home hardening thread.......

Agreed.