I agree. A 12 gauge is a heck of a weapon at any distance at which it is generally legal for a civilian to shoot at someone, and it can do a whole lot more.
An a 20 gauge isn't bad either. Overall, shotguns probably are the best all around weapons out there.
The biggest problem with Benellis is the lack of available stocks with shorter LOPs and the high price tag on them. I'm 5'7" and my wife is 5'1" and only one of us can properly shoulder a 14.5" LOP Benelli. Meanwhile, we both do fine with 12.5"-13" Remington stocks. Yea I can buy a Benelli and stick a 13" Mesa stock on it, but that adds the pistol grip that I find all kinds of wrong in terms of handling a shotgun. Add to the fact that the Magpul SGAs are the best stocks every designed for a pump shotgun (I'm sorry it's true) and it's tough not to go Mossberg or Remington.Originally Posted by ScotchMan
In my opinion the best deal going in shotguns is the 590 with ghost rings or a used Wilson Combat 870 (which run about half the MSRP). I prefer the 870 for the slicker action, but if action smoothness was all that counted, we'd all be running around with Winchester Model 12s (not that I would object to that).
For those running 20-gauge 870s, Mesa now has a receiver adapter that allows you to use 12-gauge stocks. They are about 20 bucks and I keep meaning to order a few, because I feel like they are going to get discontinued. It's just one of those "things"....
I was reading this thread and thinking of the reasons why I choose a 870 for my HD long gun and I remembered an interesting story I read from the AI&P website:
1991 Metro Dade Range, Miami FL. Two SWAT members put on a demonstration. One had an 870 with 20" barrel and three shot tube. He was loaded with 2 3/4" 00 buck which has 12 pellets so that was 8 rounds = 96 pellets. The other had a fully auto MP-5 type sub machine gun in 9mm with a 30 round magazine. Empty frames were used to simulate a window and they would both begin to fire when they turned. Standing targets were set behind the frames with just cardboard to show hits. The target turned and they began firing. The sub gun guy was really working the trigger perfect and putting out 3 round burst. The pump shooter was rocking, wow, he had that pump down. Everyone conceded that the Sub gun shooter finished almost a second before the shotgun shooter did. But here is the point people. The shooter with the 12ga put 96 .32 caliber pellets through that window in almost the same time the Sub Machine gun shooter put 30 9mm rounds.
The above proved to me beyond all doubt that the 12ga shotgun has more initial firepower then a sub-machine gun. I say initial firepower because the sub gun was mag fed and could be reloaded faster. KEY POINT. If you address a close quarters threat with the maximum fire power and end the threat there is no need to reload. There is no weapon that you can use that can put 9,12,15, 21 or more pellets depending on what you are using into a threat with one ignition of a primer. Nothing. Someone shooting a high capacity hand gun would have to pull the trigger 15 times to put the same number of holes in a threat that you can put with one pull of the trigger if you are shooting 12 ga 3" magnum 00 buckshot.
- from www.aiptactical.com
Resurrect for new intel. This is from the owner of Battlefield Las Vegas.
We have a Benelli factory SBR that has been on the line since day one OVER four years ago and it runs and runs and runs. Mossbergs and Remington pump-actions will get 3 and at MOST 4 weeks of use before they are hard-broke. It's been abused with 00 buck, birdshot and even higher velocity frangible but nothing has taken it out of action.
If I ever had to have one shotgun for the rest of my life, it would be the Benelli M4.
V/R
Ron
Trust me, we keep at least ten Mossberg and/or Remington's on hand because they go down so often. The biggest offenders are the Mossberg 500 and the Remington 870 (standard model I would guess). We had some old 70's or 80's police trade-in's that last quite a while and they finally all went down. We can get those up and running again but we need to punch the rivet on the left side of the receiver and replace a component. The Mossberg 590's do last much longer than the other two standard models they eventually break as well. We have a bunch of shotguns that we still have to demil. It's cheaper just to buy a new one than spend the money and TIME on replacement parts and all the "tuning" to make the replacement parts work properly.
If it was up to me, I would only use the Benelli M4's but customers want to see and experience the "pumping" action of a shotgun. They've seen and heard it their entire lives on movies and television so most customers tend to choose the pump-actions. We let customers know that the Benelli (we've only had one) it much lighter on recoil so it does get used quite a bit as well.
V/R
Ron
Last edited by Unobtanium; 01-08-2017 at 11:20 PM.
Would love to get a 1301 to run. But My 590a1 sits by the bed for social work. AR is in the safe. I feel much more comfortable nailing someone with 00 and them going down.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Any cops found a homeowner dead with a shotgun or AR in their hands*? They both seem to work real well the vast majority of the time.
The only homeowners I've seen lose when using a shotgun didn't fire it. I'm not in front of my stats, but I can only think of two, and neither were due to limitations of the gun. They both stemmed from not firing and having a struggle over the gun. In one instance the home owner had it taken away from him and was shot with his own gun, in the other a second intruder shot the homeowner with a revolver while the first struggled with him over the home owner's gun.
I've not seen a homeowner lose yet when using an AR. I've seen them lose with an AR in the house they never accessed, but never someone dead or dying with an AR in their hands.
*killed or critically injured by home invaders, not suicides and the like
Last edited by BehindBlueI's; 01-09-2017 at 12:11 AM.
Thing I like most about a shotgun is that to be blunt, it tears shit up. It pushes a 1oz chunk of soft 3/4 " across lead out the muzzle at well over the speed of sound. Or it launches 12 .33cal chunks of lead, with each trigger pull. It's truly destructive. If you put either of those payloads anywhere approximating COM, it's going to be catestrophic.
And there's no ballistic masturbation...what brand 00? Was it plated?? 1325fps or 1290? Was it a 1oz or 1-1/4oz slug?
Noone gives a damn. It doesn't matter. It's a beast and the color of the fur doesn't matter.
No kidding. I recently dispatched an injured deer with a single load of Flite Control #1 buck; range, about 5 yards. Holy shit. I never had reason in the past to hunt with buckshot and that's the first critter I've killed with it. I'd read what to expect. It exceeded my expectation.
“Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais
I like both the Flite Control and Hornady Versatite. Recently I've replaced my shotgun with the AR as primary long gun for HD but I wouldn't feel at a disadvantage with either. (Just hope I have the opportunity to throw the Howard Leight's on first should the need arise.)
There's nothing civil about this war.
I can shoot my shotgun without hearing protection, would hate to hear my ar in doors.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote