Page 2 of 30 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 297

Thread: Why a shotgun?

  1. #11
    STAFF/Supporting Business Jay Cunningham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Western PA
    It looks like there's new shotgun suppressor technology, though I don't know much about it other than it exists.

    Another potential downside is the whole "hostage taker shot" thing since you have a wad that flies unpredictably. How often does this kind of scenario actually happen? My goodness it's constant in shoothouses...

    Protective Shooting Concepts
    Full Spectrum Firearms Training
    PA, OH, WV

  2. #12
    Member NH Shooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    New Hampshire, U.S.A.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Cunningham View Post
    Another potential downside is the whole "hostage taker shot" thing since you have a wad that flies unpredictably.
    It seems the Federal FC wad takes about 15 to 20 feet to peel away from the main payload. Any shot within that range should strike as a single projectile. I'll need to verify the range at which I start seeing a separate strike from the FC wad.

  3. #13
    Member TGS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Bloombergia
    The comments about AR15s in "Socialist Utopias" from people who don't live in such states continue to make me laugh, given what is socially acceptable among citizens from state to state re: firearms is not really that different, IME. Remember, George Zimmerman spearheaded the effort to charge a white cop who beat up a black kid, and he worked extensively with black kids in after school programs. Even his ex-wife who has no shortage of criticism for the man, but still virulently denies any hint that he's racist. Still, the media had no problem turning him into the Grand Wizard of the KKK and one-step short of Hitler on the evil scale. What's more? This was in Florida, which ranks pretty high on gun rights. This didn't occur in a socialist utopia.

    Point being, if they want to villianize you, they will. That shotgun you used to dirtnap the teen on his way to Church to turn around his life? To the prosecution, that's a sawed-off combat shotgun similar to the one used by soldiers to execute civilians in the My Lai massacre, and a favorite among criminals. They will find no trouble in turning you into a malicious person. The shit that most of us post on social media (including this website) will do infinitesimally more harm to your character in court than the gun you used, anyway. They're lawyers. They feed their family based off of their ability to serve their client; even if that means ruining peoples' lives, facts be damned.

    I buy even less that "socialist utopias" are that drastically different in regards to what a jury will find acceptable. It really makes me laugh with how you guys put people from these places into some fictitious category of having a drastically different social strata than the rest of the US....it's eerily similar to WWI and WWII propaganda making the Huns or Japs out to be sub-human creatures. Some of the most dramatic and twisted case studies of self-defense shootings and how the jury viewed different facets through their through rose colored lenses aren't even from socialist utopias, they're from places like VA, TX, FL, ect where you guys want to imagine everyone is all cudly and snuggling with your blaster. So, in short, if you're afraid of an AR15 in a socialist state determining whether you're going to be Jamal's little spoon, then you should be concerned about it in your fictitious "free-state" as well.

    As for objective reasons regarding a shotgun vs carbine, I would prefer a shotgun (Beretta 1301 in particular) over a carbine if I lived in a rural setting. I view a 5.56 carbine as an objectively better choice regarding ricochets and penetrating walls than a shotgun, for the same reasons many tactical teams have switched to carbines. That being said, I'm not a fan of big, long, heavy shotguns. I like shotguns that are lightweight with 5-6 round tubes and shorter barrels.
    Last edited by TGS; 09-21-2014 at 10:18 AM.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Cunningham View Post
    Agreed.
    But a long gun would be a first choice over a pistol I would think. For hits on target it looks like a pistol would be dead last.
    This is all just a theoretical question and about getting opinions. I have a nine and a shotgun.
    I don't have an AR but Im looking at them. The whole reason this came up is because I can get an AR for about the same as a tactical shotgun and it seems like the AR is more bang for the buck.

  5. #15
    STAFF/Supporting Business Jay Cunningham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Western PA
    Quote Originally Posted by NH Shooter View Post
    It seems the Federal FC wad takes about 15 to 20 feet to peel away from the main payload. Any shot within that range should strike as a single projectile. I'll need to verify the range at which I start seeing a separate strike from the FC wad.
    I would LOVE to hear about any actual Heat-like hostage situation shots that an armed citizen pulled off. I have no idea if this ever happens in the real world.
    Protective Shooting Concepts
    Full Spectrum Firearms Training
    PA, OH, WV

  6. #16
    STAFF Tom_Jones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM
    TGS, I totally understand your frustration with people and what they think they know about gun laws and culture in places like CA, NJ, NY, etc., but this isn't the thread for it.

    Let's keep this one on topic, guys.

  7. #17
    Im not sure what heat is but there have been two incidents recently in the news about a father making that exact shot however I think it was with pistols.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Cunningham View Post
    I would LOVE to hear about any actual Heat-like hostage situation shots that an armed citizen pulled off. I have no idea if this ever happens in the real world.

  8. #18
    STAFF/Supporting Business Jay Cunningham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Western PA
    Heat is a movie; there's an iconic scene where Al Pacino makes a headshot on a BG holding a little girl. He uses a semi-auto rifle.
    Protective Shooting Concepts
    Full Spectrum Firearms Training
    PA, OH, WV

  9. #19
    S.M.E., STAFF, Very Pro Dentist, Chuck Haggard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Down the road from Quantrill's big raid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Cunningham View Post
    Shotgun Pros:

    • widely available
    • inexpensive (baseline models)
    • legal in more areas
    • new ammo technology (Flite Control)
    • various ammo options
    • lower pressure means easier on the ears
    • ammo cheap and widely available
    • *may* be more acceptable to a jury



    Carbine Pros:

    • small size, light weight
    • large onboard ammo capacity
    • easy to reload
    • ammo less likely to penetrate through walls
    • less recoil
    • fast follow-up shots
    • adaptability
    • aftermarket support
    • many qualified trainers to teach proper operation
    • easily suppressed
    • can engage effectively out to 200 yards



    Shotgun Cons:

    • tend to be physically large
    • heavy recoil
    • low ammo capacity
    • more difficult to reload
    • good training less available
    • easy to short stroke a manual action
    • slower follow-up shots
    • autoloaders can be ammo finicky
    • can be difficult to add accessories
    • poor iron sights
    • close engagement range



    Carbine Cons:

    • loud/blasty
    • "evil black rifle"
    • expense
    • availability
    • "assault weapon" - target of legislation
    • *may* be less acceptable to a jury


    Under shotgun "pros" you didn't list "at close range 12 and 20 gauge shotgun hits remove meat from bone".

    I have seen traumatic arm amputations due to single close range 12 gauge hits, and deceased people that look more like they have been hit by an IED than a small arm round.

    There is a reason why the average police shotgun OIS around here is a one round event.

    Just sayin.


    Don't mean to sound snarky, but it takes an NSR with a carbine to do the damage that a single close range shotgun round will produce.
    Last edited by Chuck Haggard; 09-21-2014 at 10:46 AM.

  10. #20
    I hope he made it through the scene without spitting all over everything.
    So more bang for the buck. AR or tactical shotgun. I'm leaning towards AR.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Cunningham View Post
    Heat is a movie; there's an iconic scene where Al Pacino makes a headshot on a BG holding a little girl. He uses a semi-auto rifle.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

TLG 1970–2016 RIPRampageForTheCure.org