Shooting left and I don't understand why

[USAF422]

So just finished up a short range session with my M&P 40 and I am consistently pulling left, dry fire shows that my sights are not moving through the trigger press. I can balance a casing on the front sight and have no issue with it falling off either. I put some laser grips my gun and laser does not move, yet during live fire and especially shooting at distance all shots land left. At 25 yards I can hold about 4 inch group all left of POA, at 50 yards on c-zone steel all shots are landing left and when I miss its barely off the target left. I do not think my sights are off because with my issued M&P I shot it consistently left as well. I have been exclusively shooting Berettas for the past 8 months with great success and had no problems with pulling left. I shot my buddies 1911 and his Glock 22 just for kicks to test this issue and had no problem with pulling left. I even pulled out an M&P shield I have access to and had no problem holding my shots into a 2 inch circle at 10 yards. Granted I have 803 rounds total on my M&Ps with well over 3000 rounds through the Berettas so I figure there is going to be a learning curve but this problem is killing me.

I have tried less finger in the trigger, more finger in the trigger and its all the same, but here is another kicker, at speed the problem shows up less. Bill drills, 3-2-1s, even practicing draws to a 3x5 at 7 yards the problem seems to go away. So what am I missing? Any advice, drills, help would be awesome.


Dillon

[GJM]

Drift your rear sight right -- they are fixed sights, not unadjustable sights.

Each pistol may or may not be unique in what sight height and deflection is required for a perfect zero for that individual pistol and person. I routinely, and have for several decades, require a right rear deflection of my handgun sights, with the amount varying between different platforms and examples of the same platform.

[NerdAlert]

GJM may well be correct, and if it is consistent drifting the sights is one solution. I have experienced this issue with Glocks and I can say that Glocks in particular are very sensitive to "pushing" with the grip. This may not show up in dry fire and is well documented. I am not sure if M&Ps are similar to Glocks in this regard as I only have limited time behind an M&P. Here is a thread on the subject. It certainly helped me get better: http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.p...Shooting-Glock.

Again, this may not apply to the M&P but it did help me with some issues.

[GJM]

Does the problem go away with speed at 25 yards? Does the problem go away when shooting one hand only, left and right? Does the problem go away with another M&P full size?

[Redhat]

So just finished up a short range session with my M&P 40 and I am consistently pulling left, dry fire shows that my sights are not moving through the trigger press. I can balance a casing on the front sight and have no issue with it falling off either. I put some laser grips my gun and laser does not move, yet during live fire and especially shooting at distance all shots land left. At 25 yards I can hold about 4 inch group all left of POA, at 50 yards on c-zone steel all shots are landing left and when I miss its barely off the target left. I do not think my sights are off because with my issued M&P I shot it consistently left as well. I have been exclusively shooting Berettas for the past 8 months with great success and had no problems with pulling left. I shot my buddies 1911 and his Glock 22 just for kicks to test this issue and had no problem with pulling left. I even pulled out an M&P shield I have access to and had no problem holding my shots into a 2 inch circle at 10 yards. Granted I have 803 rounds total on my M&Ps with well over 3000 rounds through the Berettas so I figure there is going to be a learning curve but this problem is killing me.

I have tried less finger in the trigger, more finger in the trigger and its all the same, but here is another kicker, at speed the problem shows up less. Bill drills, 3-2-1s, even practicing draws to a 3x5 at 7 yards the problem seems to go away. So what am I missing? Any advice, drills, help would be awesome.


Dillon

Have you tried ball/dummy? Have any pictures of the targets? Fired the trigger stripe drill?

Sometimes, it really IS the sights.

[USAF422]

Does the problem go away with speed at 25 yards? Does the problem go away when shooting one hand only, left and right? Does the problem go away with another M&P full size?

Shooting WHO I have no problem, SHO I print left. Anything I do at speed hits POA. At speed I can call my shots buy slow fire I am always surprised when I look at the target and find myself printing left because everything feels like the shot should be impacting right where I am aiming. My issued M&P 40 does the same thing for me. Its an older gun, 2008 manufacture whereas my personal gun is a 3/2014 manufacture LEO gun. Like I said above 9mm shield prints POA for me.

Ill be hitting the range again Tuesday and Im going to shoot the trigger strip drill and see what my results are, Im going to also shoot it with my Beretta and see what happens. I shot a dot torture today at 4 yards got a 48/50. Dropped one SHO and one WHO. I cant post pictures but just imagine all the holes are just left of the numbers, except for WHO dot.

[Redhat]

This video by member "Surf" is probably worth your time. It covers deeper things about Grip/trigger Finger Placement...well beyond the basics:

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.p...lacement/page2

[GJM]

Shooting WHO I have no problem, SHO I print left. Anything I do at speed hits POA. At speed I can call my shots buy slow fire I am always surprised when I look at the target and find myself printing left because everything feels like the shot should be impacting right where I am aiming. My issued M&P 40 does the same thing for me. Its an older gun, 2008 manufacture whereas my personal gun is a 3/2014 manufacture LEO gun. Like I said above 9mm shield prints POA for me.

Ill be hitting the range again Tuesday and Im going to shoot the trigger strip drill and see what my results are, Im going to also shoot it with my Beretta and see what happens. I shot a dot torture today at 4 yards got a 48/50. Dropped one SHO and one WHO. I cant post pictures but just imagine all the holes are just left of the numbers, except for WHO dot.

Most everything in this last post sounds more like it is you and not the pistol. Two M&P .40 FS pistols doing the same thing. The noticeable deflection left at 4 yards, which would be a country mile at 50 or 100. Support hand centered could mean you are working the trigger differently support hand, or on the other hand you are pushing shots right support hand, which is common for right hand dominant side shooters. Shield and Glock well centered don't mean much, other than you can shoot, as the triggers and position are different. With unlimited access, I would say shoot one more M&P FS, and if that is also left, and a good shooter that normally centers their sights shoots your pistol POI, I would say it is near 99% you are doing something.

As mentioned, the Ron Avery stripe drill and "finishing flat" are your friend. Last question, is it possible that when you are shooting "precision" you have a different grip with less support hand pressure, and when shooting one hand or at speed you go back to a more locked up position?

[USAF422]

I feel like I keep the same grip pressure doing precision work but then again this is a variable I have not tested or thought I was changing and will definitely be tweaking it my next range session to see if it changes.

[LSP552]

Last question, is it possible that when you are shooting "precision" you have a different grip with less support hand pressure, and when shooting one hand or at speed you go back to a more locked up position?

In general, these type issues center on the trigger stroke. I would also ask if your trigger stroke is slower when shooting for accuracy? Sometimes we are better off fighting the inclination to stage or work the trigger extra slow when shooting groups. I am a firm believer in a smooth, straight to the rear press that doesn't stop once you commit to firing the shot. Small differences show up as distance increases.

I don't have much experience with the M&P, but Glocks can be very sensitive to unequal/inconsistent grip pressure. A light weight plastic pistol with a heavy or creapy trigger pull can certainly be a challenge for distant accuracy.

Sights are another thing to consider. Are the sights on the guns you shoot well different that the M&Ps? Depending on age and eye sight, some factory offerings can be VERY challenging to shoot groups at distance. I know that the factory SIG night sights are the worst example for my eyes. There just isn't enough light in the rear notch for me to determine proper sight alignment.