I got a 4 moa shift one one Noveske and an 8 moa shift on the other. On my daniel defense the shift is 2 moa or less. Same can on all 3. Sent the 8 moa shifting upper to Garin Lee and he ran every combo of mount or break or can they could on it. All shifted badly. Imo, with surefire products, it's probably the host.