Surefire suppressor discussion

[Unobtanium]

So of the discrepancies noted regarding said tail........will they endure 7,000 rounds? I only ask because I currently have an AR bolt coming up on 50k, the tail is split, a crack at the bolt lug, and running on two gas rings.......gun still works fine. 7k being the service life of an AR bolt in a 10" gun, seems we are at what??? 9 times it's service life? Why would I give two kittens through a rolling donut if the "finish" or "machining" could have been better? Seems to me it is just fine.


I also see such things as zero shifts when suppressor is attached. Seems to me that if the gun shoots well without the suppressor, then doesn't when the suppressor is attached.....it "might" not be the gun that has the issue. Then again, I could be mistaken.

I got a 4 moa shift one one Noveske and an 8 moa shift on the other. On my daniel defense the shift is 2 moa or less. Same can on all 3. Sent the 8 moa shifting upper to Garin Lee and he ran every combo of mount or break or can they could on it. All shifted badly. Imo, with surefire products, it's probably the host.

[Odin Bravo One]

I got a 4 moa shift one one Noveske and an 8 moa shift on the other. On my daniel defense the shift is 2 moa or less. Same can on all 3. Sent the 8 moa shifting upper to Garin Lee and he ran every combo of mount or break or can they could on it. All shifted badly. Imo, with surefire products, it's probably the host.

IN my limited experience shooting suppressed weapons..........it's probably the suppressor.

[Unobtanium]

IN my limited experience shooting suppressed weapons..........it's probably the suppressor.

In my experience with this suppressor, it was not. That Noveske shifted 4. My other Noveske shifted 8. My daniel defense was less than 2 moa shift. Surefire test fired my suppressor again as well and got well under 1 moa shift.

[LittleLebowski]

This isn't the first time I've heard about SF suppressor issues at the organization level.

[Unobtanium]

The thread is about which AR you recommend to folks. Molon correctly pointed out that it helps to know what the end user wants to do with the rifle. Some dudes started pissing on certain brands because of (1) issues they have with industry "personalities" and/or (2) nit-picky fit and finish issues. We're talking about AR15's, not exhibition grade shotguns. What is takes to make one work reliably is pretty simple and well known by a lot of folks. There are also a lot of folks who either don't know what it takes to make one run and/or have some other agenda that makes them push a different (usually inferior) product. At the end of the day, it's all a game of odds, so let's throw out the outliers (good and bad) and focus on rifles that do the job when upon to. The best way to tell that statistically (without going and firing them) is to identify failures and then do things to correct those. Magically, Stoner (initially) and the US military (for the last 5 decades) have pretty much done that for us. Yet, people still cannot appropriately size gas ports, choose materials, or torque and stake things as they should be.

Once you reach that point (and not before) you can MAYBE concern yourself with suppressor shift, sloppy selectors and carbon-encrusted bolt tails.
This thread reminds me of a recent conversation I had with the manager of the shop where I do part-time work. He came to me all excited about some new Otis-branded AR15 bolt cleaning tool and asked what I thought. I told him I thought it was an unnecessary gadget and not worth stocking. He got a little huffy and asked me, "Well how do you clean the carbon off of your AR15 bolts?" I answered, "I don't, it's an unnecessary waste of time." He looked at me like I was crazy and ordered some anyway. Oh well. I'm sure they'll sell.

Unobtanium, how do the rifles that had crazy suppressor shift shoot without the suppressor mounted? Same mounts? Pinned/welded or threaded? Have you tried a different can on these rifles? Yes, I have tried it on 3 rifles so far. They shot well without the suppressor.
Despite any of the above answers, a close friend who does these things for a living told me suppressor shift is a non-issue. If what you're doing really requires that much precision, you should have all your dope collected using the can anyway...makes sense to me. I think 7-8 MOA shift on a 10.5" gun is an issue. a few MOA, no. 7-8? Yes.

[Unobtanium]

Didn't get it............

Short answer...........design flaw.

Same one I pointed out years ago to the Sure-Fire engineers. The lambskin condom framed on the wall means fuck all to me when I have seen it happen............had it happen on a few occasions...........DURING THE INITIAL TESTING WITH THE ENGINEERS PRESENT!!!

Under what circumstances? I have simply never heard of it happening. When was this? (what year suppressors)? You make it sound like it was a while back. Surefire changed mounts sometime around 2012 or so. Was it this newer style mount, or the one where the pawl on the suppressor engaged the teeth on the mount?

[Odin Bravo One]

Last trip, so 2 weeks ago.

And the one before.

Also one at another block of training simultaneously.

Year of suppressor.....2014. BNIB.

There have never been teeth on the SF suppressors in the inventory, as we didnt start seeing them until last year. And only on precision rifles. Those ear marked for M4's and Mk18's have been pulled from the inventory, and KAC QD 1991 technology pulled out of mothball as an interim..........

[ASH556]

Last trip, so 2 weeks ago.

And the one before.

Also one at another block of training simultaneously.

Year of suppressor.....2014. BNIB.

There have never been teeth on the SF suppressors in the inventory, as we didnt start seeing them until last year. And only on precision rifles. Those ear marked for M4's and Mk18's have been pulled from the inventory, and KAC QD 1991 technology pulled out of mothball as an interim..........

...And it's all John Noveske's fault. (cryptic, huh? )

[Odin Bravo One]

Could be..........i have 9.......and DD, and LaRue, and BCM...........don't have those issues.

[ASH556]

Could be..........i have 9.......and DD, and LaRue, and BCM...........don't have those issues.

I wasn't knocking Noveske (r.i.p.). Just a little humor. The story I heard from they guys that were there was that AAC showed up to the suppressor test day and after installing their mount on the 10.3" MK18, the can bottomed out on the rail. All this because Kevin (AAC) and John (Noveske) were friends and Noveske's MK18 was 10.5". They designed the mount to work with a 10.5", not a 10.3" and were immediately disqualified.

And so, if it weren't for Noveske and his 10.5" MK18, AAC would have won the contract, Sean and his guys wouldn't be launching SF suppressors downrange, and Unobtanium would probably not own a SF can because it wouldn't have been the latest, cool, SOCOM thing.