Descending to AR15.com status

[TCinVA]

So here's the deal, folks.



Festivus has come early this year. For the next couple of days, this thread is going to be wide open for comment. What does "wide open" mean? It means no personal info, no threats, nothing illegal. If you advertise, post porn, or threaten to kill anyone I'm going to destroy your account...but aside from that if you've got an opinion, let's hear it. If there's something on your chest, now's the time to get it off.

I'm listening. So are other members of staff.

I'd only say this: What is said in this thread is going to live in this thread. Forever. It will not be pruned. It will not be trashed.

Go for it.

[Jay Cunningham]

Neither Staff, nor SMEs, nor LEOs have any type of protected status in THIS THREAD for the duration of THIS THREAD.

No infractions or warnings will be issued unless you post personal information, threats, or something else of an illegal nature.

Members will receive a blanket amnesty for things said in THIS THREAD when THIS THREAD is over.

[RevolverRob]

As I see it, the LE Forum should specifically be for LE officers to share valid information regarding pistol training, techniques, and equipment, as well as any other ancillary topics appropriate for open source discussion, as well as be a place for the public to ask respectful questions regarding LE topics. It should NOT be a place for LE bashing or public bashing. However, there appears to be a major disconnect from many members of the public who clearly have NO clue how LE actually functions and may have spent too much time getting misinformation from media and Hollywood sources. This ignorance likely frustrates many LE officers, as it is a vivid reminder of what their work experience is like every day. Those specific civilians probably need to spend a bit more time reading than offering ignorant opinions. Yet again, another example of Dunning–Kruger effect in action.

Before questioning the statements of a highly experienced and respected individual like SeanM specifically about topics he knows far more about than 99% of typical military service members, let alone the general public, a person might want to ask themselves exactly what life experiences they are bringing to the discussion, otherwise they might end-up looking quite foolish...

If the LE Forum is meant to be about technical advice, then it needs to be about technical advice alone and all non-technical threads should be locked and new ones trimmed. If LE does not want to answer questions from well-meaning or even ill-meaning non-LE members, then it needs to be an LE-specific forum requiring credentials to participate in, or LE members need to disengage with polite but firm voice. Right? I mean I know my opinion is LE ignorant, but this seems like a reasonable solution, to provide a service to a group of members here, who are actively voicing their opinion about the unhappiness right now regarding this forum.

FWIW - I stay out of the LE Forum, because it has a tendency to just push all of my personal buttons in a very non-positive way. So, my opinion is largely irrelevant.

[orionz06]

I had been looking back for some particular instances to what Sean had asked about earlier and found that many things that would be good topics here and elsewhere for the masses were more easily emails, texts, Facebook statuses, or Facebook messages to those who can offer insight.

Why? Simply because getting the right information is easier. Posting some things on a forum opens it up for some people to say the dumbest thing possible. What's even better about that is many of the people I have spoken with are experts in their field who have not been given the special user title here.

[Haraise]

"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."

What the forum accepts for discussions determines what people you get.

[orionz06]

"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."

What the forum accepts for discussions determines what people you get.

Hmm. Perhaps some of the things I mentioned above may have prevented is winding up in the state we are in.

[PPGMD]

Just so that everyone knows, who gets the "special user title" (SME) is decided by the existing SMEs and not the Staff.

Which can result in the people selected for the title be from a similar background as the current pool.

Bill is certainly an engineering expert. I am sure we have some competition shooting experts.

Honestly I think that there is a better way to handle SME than a title that is very arbitrarily assigned. Perhaps something like a reputation system, or a nomination process.

[Dagga Boy]

How about an LE only section?

I would love to be able to have a discussion in a place that is free from LE bashing by mouth-breathers.

JR1572

Again, I had GREAT hopes for the LE section here, and had several long discussions with Doc about it. The problem with an LE only forum is what is wrong with most of LE training..........talking amongst ourselves does not improve things. Taking things from the outside and adapting them works. The highly successful LAPD Metro/SIS program that later filtered into much of the LAPD program was hatched at Gunsite. It needed a lot of tweaking, and the Colonel didn't understand a lot of the restrictions and LE world, but he did understand how to put people together with similar interests. Those people took from competition and some of the best training of its time and put it into the street laboratory. There is a metric ton of "good minutia" here. A lot of it can be tweaked. I hoped it could be tweaked in full view of the gun public with the insane idea that "maybe if these guys can read about what we do in training and the issues we face in the LE training world, maybe it will help them understand what they see in the news and help them to make appropriate force and training decisions for their world". Boy was I ever a dope. We got turds (I hope turd is okay...) dropped on the floor with tin foil hat links about an agency that had a cop and a K9 killed within this year buying body armor, cops kill puppies and like it, and various other stuff. My experience mirrors LSP972 in more distrust of the Feds with reason than most and a far greater hatred of dirty cops than anybody I know of. I also love dogs more than people and found that most fellow cops are the same. I thought that if the membership here could see how the soup was made, maybe they would understand why it tastes the way it does. Essentially, P-F went the way of every other forum, and it didn't work out.

I learned a long time ago that if you STFU up around some serious folks who have a vast amount of practical experience in the area you are interested in, they are very likely to pass some of those nuggets that only time can forge on to you. Eventually, you can then start shaping your own nuggets and discuss nuggets with peers and the elders, and then some day pass yours on. On the other hand.....if you have ever been standing around with a bunch of pipe hitting studs, and THAT GUY walks up and wants to educate the group, you will see that group disperse with a grin and "I'll talk to you guys later". Pretty soon, THAT GUY is standing there by themselves. Same sort of thing here. I learned early that if you shut up, ask respectful questions and really listen to what is going on, at some point you are no longer THAT GUY.

[Dagga Boy]

Great minds think alike. I've been pondering the idea of a reputation system for a while now.

Well that leaves me out.......I have been informed that the word for my "reputation" is not allowed.

[JR1572]

Again, I had GREAT hopes for the LE section here, and had several long discussions with Doc about it. The problem with an LE only forum is what is wrong with most of LE training..........talking amongst ourselves does not improve things. Taking things from the outside and adapting them works. The highly successful LAPD Metro/SIS program that later filtered into much of the LAPD program was hatched at Gunsite. It needed a lot of tweaking, and the Colonel didn't understand a lot of the restrictions and LE world, but he did understand how to put people together with similar interests. Those people took from competition and some of the best training of its time and put it into the street laboratory. There is a metric ton of "good minutia" here. A lot of it can be tweaked. I hoped it could be tweaked in full view of the gun public with the insane idea that "maybe if these guys can read about what we do in training and the issues we face in the LE training world, maybe it will help them understand what they see in the news and help them to make appropriate force and training decisions for their world". Boy was I ever a dope. We got turds (I hope turd is okay...) dropped on the floor with tin foil hat links about an agency that had a cop and a K9 killed within this year buying body armor, cops kill puppies and like it, and various other stuff. My experience mirrors LSP972 in more distrust of the Feds with reason than most and a far greater hatred of dirty cops than anybody I know of. I also love dogs more than people and found that most fellow cops are the same. I thought that if the membership here could see how the soup was made, maybe they would understand why it tastes the way it does. Essentially, P-F went the way of every other forum, and it didn't work out.

I learned a long time ago that if you STFU up around some serious folks who have a vast amount of practical experience in the area you are interested in, they are very likely to pass some of those nuggets that only time can forge on to you. Eventually, you can then start shaping your own nuggets and discuss nuggets with peers and the elders, and then some day pass yours on. On the other hand.....if you have ever been standing around with a bunch of pipe hitting studs, and THAT GUY walks up and wants to educate the group, you will see that group disperse with a grin and "I'll talk to you guys later". Pretty soon, THAT GUY is standing there by themselves. Same sort of thing here. I learned early that if you shut up, ask respectful questions and really listen to what is going on, at some point you are no longer THAT GUY.

I'm tracking.

JR1572