Lehigh Defense: Xtreme Penetrator Ammunition

[5pins]

Did you use a single piece of 12 gauge sheet metal in the 9mm test and a single piece of 20 gauge sheet metal in the 45 Super test? If that is not a typo, 12 gauge is almost 3 times thicker than 20 gauge.

That's a typo, 20ga was used in all of them. Thanks for catching that.

[GJM]

So, the obvious question is whether an informed person would choose a 9mm or .45 Super, using these projectiles, to defend themselves against a bear by being able to successfully penetrate the skull and hit the brain?

[Doc_Glock]

So, the obvious question is whether an informed person would choose a 9mm or .45 Super, using these projectiles, to defend themselves against a bear by being able to successfully penetrate the skull and hit the brain?

I would. But I doubt I will ever see a wild bear. And don’t consider myself informed beyond the numbers.

But, it seems, from the numbers, 9mm ball rounds should do just fine against bear skulls. How hard is it to find a freshly dead bear and just test it?

[GJM]

I would. But I doubt I will ever see a wild bear. And don’t consider myself informed beyond the numbers.

But, it seems, from the numbers, 9mm ball rounds should do just fine against bear skulls. How hard is it to find a freshly dead bear and just test it?

I would probably take your mallet over most 9mm ball rounds on a brown bear skull.

[Salamander]

"The average skull size of Kodiak bears killed by hunters in the first five years of the 21st century was 63.8cm for boars and 55.4cm for sows." (Alaska Dept of Fish & Game report)

That converts to 25.1 and 21.8 inches and is tip of snout to back of skull. Published lengths of brown bear skulls from the Caucasus region of Russia are slightly less, up to 17.9 inches.

[Clusterfrack]

So, the obvious question is whether an informed person would choose a 9mm or .45 Super, using these projectiles, to defend themselves against a bear by being able to successfully penetrate the skull and hit the brain?

This is really a tough question. Emotionally, when I think about having to defend myself and family or friends against the largest land predator, I am drawn to a heavy caliber. But, if these data are valid in the real world, I would rather have 16-19 rounds of 9mm XP in a gun I know I can make good hits at 25 yds, with splits under 0.5s.

[JHC]

I would. But I doubt I will ever see a wild bear. And don’t consider myself informed beyond the numbers.

But, it seems, from the numbers, 9mm ball rounds should do just fine against bear skulls. How hard is it to find a freshly dead bear and just test it?

It's been done before. On Kodiak a fishing party got jumped near shore, must be what, 10 or 15 years back?. I'm sure many will recall this one for the humor factor that the guy assigned to carry the shotgun threw it and dove into the surf. Another guy started firing his Ruger 9mm and hit it in the shoulder. It must have been double lucky to not just hit the bone right but as that shoulder was bearing most of its weight because it went down and the pistolero shot it in its head to kill it.

It got a lot of coverage at the time and I saw it stated he was loaded with 115 grain FMJ.

[5pins]

It's been done before. On Kodiak a fishing party got jumped near shore, must be what, 10 or 15 years back?. I'm sure many will recall this one for the humor factor that the guy assigned to carry the shotgun threw it and dove into the surf. Another guy started firing his Ruger 9mm and hit it in the shoulder. It must have been double lucky to not just hit the bone right but as that shoulder was bearing most of its weight because it went down and the pistolero shot it in its head to kill it.

It got a lot of coverage at the time and I saw it stated he was loaded with 115 grain FMJ.

I remember that one. It was the first time I heard of someone shooting a bear with a 9mm.

Fisherman shoots, kills grizzly

BEAR! BEAR! Man plugs lunging bruin with 9 mm pistol on Russian River.


By Zaz Hollander
Anchorage Daily News

(Published: August 18, 2002)
A fisherman shot and killed a sow grizzly as she charged him in the early morning darkness Saturday on the banks of the Russian River.

The bear surprised Garen Brenner and two friends about 2:30 a.m. as they packed up their gear at one of the Kenai Peninsula's most popular fishing spots, said Larry Lewis, an Alaska Department of Fish and Game wildlife technician on the peninsula.

Brenner heard his friend yell "Bear! Bear!" and looked downriver to see the sow a few yards down the bank eyeing the friend. The bear lost interest in Brenner's friend after he backed into the water and threw his shotgun at her.

But then she turned, looked up at Brenner and lunged, said Lewis, who interviewed the three men Saturday.

Brenner fired at the center of the hulking shape closing to four or five feet away. He fired

twice. The sow, estimated at 400 to 450 pounds, went down. Then Brenner fired three more shots into her head.

He shot the bear with a 9 mm semiautomatic pistol. Lewis said such a low-caliber gun ordinarily doesn't pack enough punch to kill a bear. But Brenner loaded the pistol with full-metal-jacket bullets that penetrated to the bear's vital organs, he said.

"I think that's what saved his bacon," Lewis said.

The bear most likely was protecting her yearling cub, which waited well behind her above the steep bank, wildlife officials said.

After the shooting, the cub ran up and down the bank near its mother's body, bawling in distress. "It would stop and smell the bear, the sow, and then it would go into the water a ways, then it would come back," said Bill Shuster, a wildlife biologist with the U.S. Forest Service.

Local fishing guide Brandon Maes ran into the cub as he fished the Upper Kenai River near its confluence with the Russian. The cub charged, and Maes waded across the swift, chest-deep river to an island. The bear backed off but not before charging the guide's buddies in a boat nearby.

Soon after, Lewis tranquilized the cub, tagged and collared her and moved her to the south side of Skilak Lake.

The encounter was the latest of several close calls between people and bears along Southcentral rivers and streams. The Russian is thick with spawned-out sockeye that draw bears.

Authorities are looking into whether the dead bear is the same sow that attacked a Soldotna mother and son hiking Resurrection Pass Trail on Friday afternoon about three miles from Cooper Landing.

That bear, also accompanied by a cub, raked the mother's face with her claws and bit the son.

Nonetheless, people going into Gwin's store expressed dismay Saturday that Brenner killed the brown bear, said Linda Krack, a Washington state resident working there on Saturday.

"I'm not from here, but locals were pretty angry," Krack said. "Rumor had it, it wasn't necessary, but I sure don't know. I wasn't there. I didn't have it charging after me."

Lewis, who interviewed the fishermen on Saturday, dismissed such criticism. "That's absolute nonsense," he said. "He got a hearty handshake and a 'job well done' for saving himself and his buddies."

[GJM]

An issue that we have previously discussed, is that many 9mm FMJ loads are using economy bullets that are a thin plate over soft lead, and may penetrate worse than a quality JHP. The Lehigh bullet is different construction.

[LSP552]

I will be back in Alaska next Aug and will probably carry a 9mm of some flavor with Lehigh. Typically it’s been a heavy .45 Colt load but I shoot the 9 sooo much better.