Iowa PCSO ND

[Dagga Boy]

One of the most dangerous incidents I was ever involved with was a lady in her late 70's in a diabetic episode. Luckily, I was able to recognize that was what the issue was. When this stuff happens with those who aren't easily identified as not being a crook, things can go very bad. This also illustrates the issues with adrenalin. When you have been chasing someone in the wrong way in traffic at high speeds for a long period and then expected by the public and Monday Morning QB's, to act in a calm and relaxed manner is unrealistic. It doesn't make the mistakes right, it gives us a place to look at for increased training efforts. Unfortunately, it is usually easier to just throw the officers under the bus than invest in an actual solution.

[Shellback]

Luckily, I was able to recognize that was what the issue was. When this stuff happens with those who aren't easily identified as not being a crook, things can go very bad.

We had a guy not too long ago in Henderson who was driving to work and went into diabetic shock at 4am. Police assumed he was DUI due to his driving, which is understandable, so they pulled him out at a stoplight. They ran into issues when some turd started kicking him in the face multiple times while he was on the ground and other officers were cuffing him. The whole thing was caught on dash cam and ended up in the news, Youtube, etc. Ended up costing $300k to settle that one.

This also illustrates the issues with adrenalin. When you have been chasing someone in the wrong way in traffic at high speeds for a long period and then expected by the public and Monday Morning QB's, to act in a calm and relaxed manner is unrealistic. It doesn't make the mistakes right, it gives us a place to look at for increased training efforts. Unfortunately, it is usually easier to just throw the officers under the bus than invest in an actual solution.

Just like that video. My initial thought was bad dude trying to get away, not stopping, wrong way up streets, etc. and the mindset that you're dealing with a real criminal is completely understandable.

[Trooper224]

I spent several years teaching traffic stop techniques and officer survival at my agency's academy. The only thing these officer's did right was bring their vehicles to a stop and one couldn't get that done in a tactically correct manner. I couldn't count the number of in-car videos I used for training that showed this same kind of thing, going back to the earliest in-car cameras. Some were from our own people who had proper tactics hammered into their heads repeatedly. Over the years I've conducted multi-agency felony stops where I was the only one with a weapon drawn. Ones in which everything was proceeding by the numbers until the last yayhoo on scene ran up to the vehicle in just such a manner, in front of the rest of us and into our line of fire. I once had to set in court watching a video of a pursuit followed by a felony stop in which I yelled at a fellow Trooper to, "Get the F' back!" when he attempted to do this very thing. Pretty embarrassing for him.

Of course, there are also things like citizens walking into the middle of a felony stop to ask for directions, etc. Stupid ain't limited to behind the badge.

[Shellback]

Stupid ain't limited to behind the badge.

If that were the case there'd be a lot of officers out of a job.

[Chuck Haggard]

Ironically enough Graham v Conner was a diabetic problem that turned into a bad deal with the LE involved.


The flip side being how many diabetics that drive even though they know they shouldn't. I recall a double fatality accident that we had to work from just such a guy.

My wife being type 1 since she was 8 years old makes me aware and "sensitive" so diabetic issues. She is the first person to deride people for getting themselves into some of this crap by being "bad diabetics".

[Chuck Whitlock]

There was nothing right with anything in that video. Nothing.

One of the biggest things I invested a huge amount of time and dedicated effort in with my folks was the gun handling/tactics side. That video is why. That crap happens all the time and the only reason anyone is seeing it is due to the ND. Otherwise, everybody would have gotten a "great job" medal.

Looks like a classic example of "Fortuitous outcomes reinforcing bad tactics".

[Chuck Haggard]

Looks like a classic example of "Fortuitous outcomes reinforcing bad tactics".

That happens often in these sorts of situations. I hope in this case a brutally realistic AAR happens, along with retraining.

[sabre675]

Everybody always rushes the car like there is free cookies for being the first one there. Adrenalin over safety any day eh boys. Needs to be more emphasis on In Service Training annually for sure. Unfortunately very little training is done if any in Iowa, after Academy Certification as i applies to situations like this. And annual in service firearms qualification is a joke. Not too far away from where I hail. Just a suburb of Des Moines.