New CZ P-07 = Mind Blown

[GuanoLoco]

I agree that how CGW classifies their springs isn't important. The important things are reliability and how we want the gun to perform. That's a really good sign that you're having solid function with CCI primers and the 13# mainspring. The extended FP and CGW FP spring are a big part of that, I think.

Stock is 20#, and CGW specifies that we cannot use it with their FP and spring kit. Personally, I would not use anything lighter without the extended FP, but I like to err on the side of reliability.

I've used the 18# spring in my Prograde P-07 and it will pop CCI #41 military 5.56 primers (the hardest I am aware of). The 15# spring is currently what I am using in that gun, and have had 100% function with a wide range of ammo. It took 2 strikes to pop CCI#41 primers. I carry my guns in dusty, muddy, and wet conditions, and don't want to worry about reliability for a modest gain in DA trigger pull.

... but I'll have to try that 13# sometime. I bet it's really nice.

You bring up a good point - I’m not usually in poor conditions, and perhaps more importantly, IIRC, the 15# hammer spring only added about 1/2 lb to the DA. I’ll have to swap and re-measure both. For that little of a benefit and ou situation (and perhaps mine), the 15# is probably a no-brainer.

I shot about another 150-ish rounds on the CZ today with Feudist. On an El Prez drill I had a malf of some sort but I was in speed/practice mode and automatically cleared it before my brain had a chance to properly diagnose it. IIRC I did a DA trigger pull, hammer fell, no bang and the hammer sound seemed odd (I was wearing plugs though and I don’t dry fire with plugs). Picking up the round later there was a tiny prick mark on the primer, like a free-floating firing pin mark but not a real FP strike that could have popped a primer.

Thinking through this later, in the context of GJM’s reports, I might well have gripped the gun funny on the concealed turn-and-draw. Also, the hammer might have fallen to half-cock, but sadly I didn’t stop to properly diagnose. I reloaded the round in a mag and it shot fine. I will definitely watch carefully for this type of thing in the future.

[ralph]

You bring up a good point - I’m not usually in poor conditions, and perhaps more importantly, IIRC, the 15# hammer spring only added about 1/2 lb to the DA. I’ll have to swap and re-measure both. For that little of a benefit and ou situation (and perhaps mine), the 15# is probably a no-brainer.

I shot about another 150-ish rounds on the CZ today with Feudist. On an El Prez drill I had a malf of some sort but I was in speed/practice mode and automatically cleared it before my brain had a chance to properly diagnose it. IIRC I did a DA trigger pull, hammer fell, no bang and the hammer sound seemed odd (I was wearing plugs though and I don’t dry fire with plugs). Picking up the round later there was a tiny prick mark on the primer, like a free-floating firing pin mark but not a real FP strike that could have popped a primer.

Thinking through this later, in the context of GJM’s reports, I might well have gripped the gun funny on the concealed turn-and-draw. Also, the hammer might have fallen to half-cock, but sadly I didn’t stop to properly diagnose. I reloaded the round in a mag and it shot fine. I will definitely watch carefully for this type of thing in the future.

You know another possibilty, assuming ypu were using your reloads when this happened is, a high primer, those will also leave a small dimple on the primer, but no bang, and usually, they go off when ran through the second time...Just a thought, as I get high primers on my 650 from time to time, if I'm not careful..

[GJM]

You bring up a good point - I’m not usually in poor conditions, and perhaps more importantly, IIRC, the 15# hammer spring only added about 1/2 lb to the DA. I’ll have to swap and re-measure both. For that little of a benefit and ou situation (and perhaps mine), the 15# is probably a no-brainer.

I shot about another 150-ish rounds on the CZ today with Feudist. On an El Prez drill I had a malf of some sort but I was in speed/practice mode and automatically cleared it before my brain had a chance to properly diagnose it. IIRC I did a DA trigger pull, hammer fell, no bang and the hammer sound seemed odd (I was wearing plugs though and I don’t dry fire with plugs). Picking up the round later there was a tiny prick mark on the primer, like a free-floating firing pin mark but not a real FP strike that could have popped a primer.

Thinking through this later, in the context of GJM’s reports, I might well have gripped the gun funny on the concealed turn-and-draw. Also, the hammer might have fallen to half-cock, but sadly I didn’t stop to properly diagnose. I reloaded the round in a mag and it shot fine. I will definitely watch carefully for this type of thing in the future.

I am convinced I was slow to realize the DA ignition problem because it was so infrequent and I assumed it was an ammo issue. Really took pounding on the P09 pistols every day with USPSA practice to notice it. I also think the problems got worse with round count, which suggests wear was involved.

[cheby]

You bring up a good point - I’m not usually in poor conditions, and perhaps more importantly, IIRC, the 15# hammer spring only added about 1/2 lb to the DA. I’ll have to swap and re-measure both. For that little of a benefit and ou situation (and perhaps mine), the 15# is probably a no-brainer.

I shot about another 150-ish rounds on the CZ today with Feudist. On an El Prez drill I had a malf of some sort but I was in speed/practice mode and automatically cleared it before my brain had a chance to properly diagnose it. IIRC I did a DA trigger pull, hammer fell, no bang and the hammer sound seemed odd (I was wearing plugs though and I don’t dry fire with plugs). Picking up the round later there was a tiny prick mark on the primer, like a free-floating firing pin mark but not a real FP strike that could have popped a primer.

Thinking through this later, in the context of GJM’s reports, I might well have gripped the gun funny on the concealed turn-and-draw. Also, the hammer might have fallen to half-cock, but sadly I didn’t stop to properly diagnose. I reloaded the round in a mag and it shot fine. I will definitely watch carefully for this type of thing in the future.

This suspiciously looks like one of those malfunctions that GJM reported.

[GuanoLoco]

You know another possibilty, assuming ypu were using your reloads when this happened is, a high primer, those will also leave a small dimple on the primer, but no bang, and usually, they go off when ran through the second time...Just a thought, as I get high primers on my 650 from time to time, if I'm not careful..

Possible but less likely - I run a Mark 7/1050 and primer seating depth is QC checked regularly, plus I Hundo cause gauge ALL ammo, practice and match. I also didn't notice a high primer when I examined the round - that generally stands out to my eye.

No way was that pin prick a real primer strike.

I was messing with the dirty P-07 with a bud later. He was checking out the DA/SA pull and reset and observed that there was almost no overtravel present - generally a clue that you are on the edge of bad things happening. A quick peek on the CZ forums makes me think that this is not unusual but i only have the one unit. I need to check the P-01 Omega I have that is still in OEM configuration.

So, we are messing with it and all of a sudden the trigger starts occasionally failing to reset properly after a DA pull. The trigger is moving back and forth under light spring tension, but not engaged. After fully letting it back out it would 'catch' again, and act normally for a bit, then do it again. We did this 5-6 times. I opened it up, looked for issues (nothing obvious), used a paper towel to quickly wipe out the worst of the carbon gunk, and re-assembled. Yes, it had been a while since I cleaned or lubed i

Now the gun is working perfectly and I can't get the problem to replicate. I field stripped it cleaned it some more last night (not a deep clean, no ultrasonic or spraying out the trigger assy), and re-lubed (SLIP2000). Still working perfectly.

I WAS close to declaring this gun worthy of carry based on 1000+ flawless rounds - but now I am concerned that I am somehow 'on the edge' and am maybe just some gunk away from malfunctions.

I need to call CGW and get their opinion on this. I need more testing. Maybe I need a slightly different roller size. Maybe I need an un-modified trigger bar spring. I don't know ... but I do know that I now need more confidence.

[GuanoLoco]

This suspiciously looks like one of those malfunctions that GJM reported.

Maybe. I am kicking myself for being more interested in completing the drill than completing the diagnostic process.

[GJM]

I need to call CGW and get their opinion on this. I need more testing. Maybe I need a slightly different roller size. Maybe I need an un-modified trigger bar spring. I don't know ... but I do know that I now need more confidence.

Maybe you need a different type pistol.

[GuanoLoco]

Maybe you need a different type pistol.

It's too soon, I'm still in denial.

Maybe I'll just stick with my boring ass Glocks.

[ralph]

Possible but less likely - I run a Mark 7/1050 and primer seating depth is QC checked regularly, plus I Hundo cause gauge ALL ammo, practice and match. I also didn't notice a high primer when I examined the round - that generally stands out to my eye.

No way was that pin prick a real primer strike.

I was messing with the dirty P-07 with a bud later. He was checking out the DA/SA pull and reset and observed that there was almost no overtravel present - generally a clue that you are on the edge of bad things happening. A quick peek on the CZ forums makes me think that this is not unusual but i only have the one unit. I need to check the P-01 Omega I have that is still in OEM configuration.

So, we are messing with it and all of a sudden the trigger starts occasionally failing to reset properly after a DA pull. The trigger is moving back and forth under light spring tension, but not engaged. After fully letting it back out it would 'catch' again, and act normally for a bit, then do it again. We did this 5-6 times. I opened it up, looked for issues (nothing obvious), used a paper towel to quickly wipe out the worst of the carbon gunk, and re-assembled. Yes, it had been a while since I cleaned or lubed i

Now the gun is working perfectly and I can't get the problem to replicate. I field stripped it cleaned it some more last night (not a deep clean, no ultrasonic or spraying out the trigger assy), and re-lubed (SLIP2000). Still working perfectly.

I WAS close to declaring this gun worthy of carry based on 1000+ flawless rounds - but now I am concerned that I am somehow 'on the edge' and am maybe just some gunk away from malfunctions.

I need to call CGW and get their opinion on this. I need more testing. Maybe I need a slightly different roller size. Maybe I need an un-modified trigger bar spring. I don't know ... but I do know that I now need more confidence.

I'm interested in hearing what CGW has to say.... Although I may have missed it what mods have you done to your P-07? All I did with mine is change some springs, install an extended firing pin, I'm running an 18 lb hammer spring. Everything else is stock.. So far, no problems..Daily dry fire practice..

[GuanoLoco]

I'm interested in hearing what CGW has to say.... Although I may have missed it what mods have you done to your P-07? All I did with mine is change some springs, install an extended firing pin, I'm running an 18 lb hammer spring. Everything else is stock.. So far, no problems..Daily dry fire practice..

CGW Pro-Upgrade Kit, lighter pull sear spring (they provide 2 springs, one for increased SA pull weight).

Polish job per CZ web site - and yes I know how to do a proper polish job without removing excess metal. 3000 grit sandpaper finish/Simichrome buffing. All flat work done on a sheet of glass. The only place I went heavy was the very rough tool marks on the end of the trigger bar. Slightly relieved trigger bar spring to ‘reduce stacking’ per web site recommendation. Yes I plan to replace with a fresh one - I bough a few extras.

Blue 13” competition hammer spring

Unrelated: Dawson Sights, TractionGrips