New CZ P-07 = Mind Blown

[claymore504]

I agree that the P07 & P09 are not great for people with larger hands and/or long fingers due to the shorter trigger reach. That is actually one of the main reasons I gave them a try and found I really like them. When I decided to go DA/SA, I found with my mediumish hands that the trigger reach in DA on most guns was too long for me. The P07 & P09 is just right. I like and run the SP-01 Tac, but having a short reach kit and thinner grips is ideal for me. I love the Beretta 92, but once agaon, it must have the short reach trigger and thin grips to work for me.

When I first started the DA/SA hunt, I went with the Sig P229. Even with the factory SIg short reach trigger it just did not work for me. Now a P226 or P229 SAO is amazing.

[1More]

I've come to the conclusion that the P-07 may not be the best choice for larger hands/longer fingers. Here are a couple aftermarket trigger options. Not sure if they would help.

https://cajungunworks.com/product/omega-trigger/

https://rushbyind.com/product/cz-p07...-flat-trigger/

I'll second the recommendation to try the Omega trigger from Cajun. I have larger hands and a long reach with my index finger(XL gloves, thick base of thumb). On a P07 Duty (equal to small/medium backstrap on Gen 2 P07), I had to train to a different finger placement to prevent pinching and other weirdness. I tried the Gen 2 trigger in the Duty frame and the issue remained, while adding others. The Omega trigger works well for me; greatly reduced the propensity for pinching and support hand interference. It also feels closer to the stock trigger in my Shadow 2. From some angles, I would love to have a stock 226 style trigger shape in my CZ... but the Omega in my P07 took it from a "this is ok to shoot" to "I'm going to have to rein this horse in, it is so nice it takes itself for a run". For strong- or weak-hand only shooting, the improvement is even greater in placement, control, and management.

[FreedomFries]

I'll second the recommendation to try the Omega trigger from Cajun. I have larger hands and a long reach with my index finger(XL gloves, thick base of thumb). On a P07 Duty (equal to small/medium backstrap on Gen 2 P07), I had to train to a different finger placement to prevent pinching and other weirdness. I tried the Gen 2 trigger in the Duty frame and the issue remained, while adding others. The Omega trigger works well for me; greatly reduced the propensity for pinching and support hand interference. It also feels closer to the stock trigger in my Shadow 2. From some angles, I would love to have a stock 226 style trigger shape in my CZ... but the Omega in my P07 took it from a "this is ok to shoot" to "I'm going to have to rein this horse in, it is so nice it takes itself for a run". For strong- or weak-hand only shooting, the improvement is even greater in placement, control, and management.

OK, I'll try the CGW Omega trigger shoe. I have had a lot of trouble getting the P-07 to work for me. I first tried one around 2018 and traded it away because I was unhappy with the trigger press on it. Then I got to reading all the praises here on PF years later and was convinced to try it again also because of the ease of optics milling for the P-07 versus other TDA pistols. The trigger was a little better on these later production ones, but I'm still having that problem with finger placement and length of pull.

[Chris17404]

I had a question by PM: "how much slack is there in the P-07 trigger in DA and SA modes?"

Both SA and DA pulls are 2-stage, with significant takeup. See below (note that the gun in the vids has a full CGW ProGrade kit):

@Chris17404

Thank you for those illustrative videos, @Clusterfrack. That helps a lot. As I mentioned in my IM to you, something I really like about the DA pull on a revolver or Beretta 92 is the fact there is no slack to take up before the full weight of the DA pull is felt. It's one long continuous weight pull. I do, however, prefer some slack to be taken up in the SA pull. It's just a bit of extra assurance, and I like the feeling of getting to the "wall" prior to pressing through the SA shot.

So the SA pull on the P-07 seems perfectly acceptable to me, but the DA is not what I ideally prefer. I'm curious how you address the takeup and resulting sudden increase in weight in the DA pull. Do you just smash right through it, or do you consciously take up the slack first and then roll thru the full weight and travel of the DA press?

[Clusterfrack]

Thank you for those illustrative videos, @Clusterfrack. That helps a lot. As I mentioned in my IM to you, something I really like about the DA pull on a revolver or Beretta 92 is the fact there is no slack to take up before the full weight of the DA pull is felt. It's one long continuous weight pull. I do, however, prefer some slack to be taken up in the SA pull. It's just a bit of extra assurance, and I like the feeling of getting to the "wall" prior to pressing through the SA shot.

So the SA pull on the P-07 seems perfectly acceptable to me, but the DA is not what I ideally prefer. I'm curious how you address the takeup and resulting sudden increase in weight in the DA pull. Do you just smash right through it, or do you consciously take up the slack first and then roll thru the full weight and travel of the DA press?

Great question. I don’t care that much about trigger feel, so I never thought about the 2-stage DA until you mentioned it. I like it because that’s how almost all of my other triggers work. The P07 DA ‘2nd stage’ power stroke is relatively short, which I like a lot. It’s easy to pull straight back.

For most shots I pull fairly rapidly through both stages. If it’s a tough shot, I prep and press.

[Chris17404]

Gotcha. Thank you. I wonder if there's any custom work that can be done to the P-07's trigger to minimize or eliminate that 2-stage DA pull. That would make it more palatable to me. I'd be happy to replace the zero-weight take-up stage with the full DA weight, making the DA length of pull longer.

[Clusterfrack]

Gotcha. Thank you. I wonder if there's any custom work that can be done to the P-07's trigger to minimize or eliminate that 2-stage DA pull. That would make it more palatable to me. I'd be happy to replace the zero-weight take-up stage with the full DA weight, making the DA length of pull longer.

Maybe an aftermarket trigger with a pre-travel adjustment screw? It's unlikely you could increase the length of the DA power stroke.

[FreedomFries]

I got the CGW trigger shoe today. It doesn't change the trigger reach much but it does feel a lot more comfortable on my finger in DA dry fire. I didn't install the overtravel limiting screw yet. Have struggled with the P-07 trigger for about 6 years. Gave up on the P-07 initially and only got interested in them again recently because of their ease of direct milling for a dot versus other TDA. I tried a CGW Pro Grade Kit that lightened both the DA and SA pull, changed the SA from rolling to crisp break, and shortened the reset distance. None of this really improved the feel of the trigger to me as much as just changing the trigger shoe to the CGW Old Style 85. I actually ended up taking out a lot of the other CGW parts because I don't care about short reset and having to use the extended firing pin with their disconnector/lifter arm makes me uncomfortable. Still using some of their springs to get the DA pull lighter but keep the SA pull above 3.5 lbs.

[Clusterfrack]

I got the CGW trigger shoe today. It doesn't change the trigger reach much but it does feel a lot more comfortable on my finger in DA dry fire. I didn't install the overtravel limiting screw yet. Have struggled with the P-07 trigger for about 6 years. Gave up on the P-07 initially and only got interested in them again recently because of their ease of direct milling for a dot versus other TDA. I tried a CGW Pro Grade Kit that lightened both the DA and SA pull, changed the SA from rolling to crisp break, and shortened the reset distance. None of this really improved the feel of the trigger to me as much as just changing the trigger shoe to the CGW Old Style 85. I actually ended up taking out a lot of the other CGW parts because I don't care about short reset and having to use the extended firing pin with their disconnector/lifter arm makes me uncomfortable. Still using some of their springs to get the DA pull lighter but keep the SA pull above 3.5 lbs.

Nice! I won't try to talk you into the extended FP, but I did some testing (see below) and was satisfied that it is drop safe--especially since the P07 has a firing pin block safety.

Safety Testing the CGW Extended Firing Pin

I had a little free time today, and completed a project I've had planned for a while.

The CGW Extended Firing Pin (EFP) is part of the ProGrade Kit, and can be used separately as well. The EFP is the key to using lighter hammer springs. In my guns, I have determined that springs as light as #13 are reliable.

However, the EFP is longer than the OEM firing pin, and protrudes slightly from the breech face when under pressure, even when the FP safety is engaged.




This was concerning to me for obvious reasons. Therefore I tested if an impact to the EFP could fire a round in the chamber. I used empty primed cases: Federal HST 147, and my own handholds (Winchester primer). I tested two of my guns, one with a full Prograde Kit and 6000+ rounds through it, and a new P-07 with the EFP.




I whacked the EFP with a punch and a hammer three times. No ignition.




The primers looked like this, with a visible but small indentation:




I fired the gun normally, and the primers ignited. The cases looked like this:




Conclusion: a very hard impact to the EFP while the FP safety is engaged will not ignite even soft Federal primers.

[FreedomFries]

Nice! I won't try to talk you into the extended FP, but I did some testing (see below) and was satisfied that it is drop safe--especially since the P07 has a firing pin block safety.

I saw the tests you did with a punch and I've also read that the extended firing only protrudes up to 0.004" beyond the breach face, the exact amount depending on tolerance stacking of the various parts, which would not be expected to risk crushing the primer compound against the anvil. Still, I do not recall having seen any stock service pistol with a firing pin block that allows the firing pin to protrude beyond the breach face like that. Since the main benefit of having that extended firing pin is improve ignition reliability with very light hammer springs, I decided to forego using it because I use either the 15# or 18# hammer spring and have had no issue with S&B primers when paired with the reduced power firing pin spring.

The other issue I have with the extended firing pin is that it has a "low lift" feature to make it compatible with the short reset parts in the Pro Grade Kit. The amount that the firing pin block plunger has to be lifted for the firing pin to pass is reduced when using the extended firing pin versus the OEM firing pin. Since I do not need a short reset, I prefer not to reduce the amount of lift required to deactivate the firing pin block.

This is not a criticism of the CGW parts or anyone that carries with those parts. They are very high quality parts and I have no doubt that they tested their design thoroughly. It is just beyond my comfort level to have the firing pin protrude beyond the breach face and reduce the amount of movement required to deactivate the firing pin block system in order to reduce my DA pull by 0.5-1# (using a 13# vs 15# or 18# hammer spring) and shorten the reset distance by approximately 1/3 to 1/2.

I did use the CGW 15# hammer spring, reduced power firing pin spring, heavy sear spring, reduced power trigger return spring, and the tempered spring steel firing pin retaining pin. Some minor aftermarket spring changes plus the obvious upgrade to the retaining pin are within my comfort zone. I have a 8.75# DA and 3.5# SA, which is good enough for me after the grittiness improves from repeated dry firing.