Unfortunately the NF sights seem to print 3" high at 20 yds. I now have a sample size of two guns and two shooters. I will probably have a custom front tritium sight made at Dawson, and keep the NF rear.Originally Posted by Lon
Unfortunately the NF sights seem to print 3" high at 20 yds. I now have a sample size of two guns and two shooters. I will probably have a custom front tritium sight made at Dawson, and keep the NF rear.
“There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
"You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
I owned a P-07 in the past and had no issues with it. I haven't followed this thread in a while, but are there still light strike problems in DA for some of you?
Update: I last posted here on 9/30; details below pulled from my Training Journal.
10/6 - Shot another ~330 rounds, now at about 1000 rounds since opening up the trigger slot in the frame to allow sklightly more overtravel. I’m running the 15# hammer spring and CCI primers.
10/7 - Shot another ~330 rounds. Realizing slide lock reloads with a P-09 mag is not autoforwarding; slide release is stiff.
10/12 - Started working on refacing slide stop to improve alide release. Realize P-07 mags are working properly, P-09 mags are subject to over-insertion, impeding auto-forward and easy slide release.
10/14.- Shot 120 rounds on the P-07, 220 on the G19. I might have seen the slide get sluggish once or twice chambering a round. Probably time to at leaast lube. I started my comparison using the Gabe White Standards (GWS) of the CZ P-07 vs. a Glock 19.3, with 22 rounds on the G19. It’s taking me a bit to get e-calibrated swapping between the guns to do a fair comparison of my relative ability to shoot them using the GWS, FST, etc. as a reference point.
10/15 - Kick ass live fire session: Shot about 220 rounds on the P-07. I am most assuredly capable of shooting GWS Turbo Pin times on the P-07, just not consistently. The only lube or cleaning has been on the hammer spring, as I had tested trigger pull weights on a variety of hammer springs that I have. Now at about 1670 rounds - time to clean!
10/16 - Shot about 200 rounds on GWS with pair of G19s. I was a little tired, it was getting dark, and the session disn’t go as well as I would have liked, while yesterday’s session kicked butt. One of the G19’s had a couple of Failures to Feed using Magpul 17 round practice mags and my reloads (126-127PF, 124gr, stupid fast burning powder, stock recoil springs). The other shot fine.
I broke down and cleaned the P-07 (and G-19’s). Field stripped, briefly tosed in the ultrasonic cleaner with a 50/50 simple green/water mix for 10m at room temp, then hand-cleaned and re-lubed. It dawned on me that I might not be doing the P-07 TractionGrips any favors but didn’t notice any issues.
I took down the slide and noticed that the CGW Reduced Power Firing Pin spring had broken at about 25% of its length, however then gun was still working. Not re-assuring. I put in a replacement RP spring.
I am considering going back to the OEM FP Spring and the 18# hammer spring for testing and potential reliability. Still not carrying the gun.
Summary: Adding overtravel seems to have solved my issue 100%; P-07 mags (15+2 with base pad) work better than P-09 (19+2) mags for slide lock reloads, CGW RP Trigger springs MIGHT be a little weak/light for carry use, and you should probably at least lube your gun if you aren’t going to clean it. Perhaps a thicker lube that SLIP2000 EWL wiould work better, but it’s not like EWL isn’t working pretty well.
More on (tuned) P-07 vs. (tuned) G19-3 thoughts later.
Last edited by GuanoLoco; 10-17-2018 at 07:53 AM.
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Update on my P-07s. I spent some time comparing POI and sight dimensions of my two guns. One has the CGW/Dawson tritium sights, and the other has Night Fision tritiums.
Both sets of sights appear to have identical front and rear heights. These were measured to the top of the slide. Using Fed HST 147, POI was identical and on target at 7-10 yds. However, both guns hit 2-3" high at 20 to 25 yds. This is acceptable. I can now recommend the Night Fision sights, but only if you like a very tight sight picture (I do). These sights remind me of Ameriglo Operators, but with a more "high vis" front.
Dawson
Front: 0.162" high, 0.125" wide
Rear: 0.208" high, 0.135" notch
Night Fision
Front: 0.162" high, 0.140" wide
Rear: 0.208" high, 0.138" notch
@GuanoLoco, why do you say the CGW trigger return spring is too light? Have you had it not return the trigger? Or is the SA pull too light? I am using the heavy 0.020" sear spring, which yields a 3-4# SA pull with the CGW TRS. That's interesting that you had a FP spring break. Are you using the CGW extended FP?
Last edited by Clusterfrack; 10-17-2018 at 07:20 PM.
“There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
"You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
I’m sorry, I mis-typed. I’ve been using the CGW Reduced Power Trigger Return Springs in my Tanfo Stock 2’s for years and they have been just fine - yes they brek eventully but that is expected.
And yes, I am using the CGW extended Firing Pin - All good so far except I MEANT to refer to the Firing Pin Springs. Let me try this again:
I’d have to go back and count but I’m only 2-3000 rounds in and I don’t think I’ve ever broken a Firing Pin Spring before.Summary: Adding overtravel seems to have solved my issue 100%; P-07 mags (15+2 with base pad) work better than P-09 (19+2) mags for slide lock reloads, CGW RP Firing Pin springs MIGHT be a little weak/light for carry use, and you should probably at least lube your gun if you aren’t going to clean it. Perhaps a thicker lube that SLIP2000 EWL wiould work better, but it’s not like EWL isn’t working pretty well.
Last edited by GuanoLoco; 10-17-2018 at 08:00 PM.
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For those interested in the Night Fision sights, use coupon code FACEPALM for a significant discount.
Cross-Posting from my Training Journal: CZ P-07 vs. Glock 19-3 Performance Analysis
I think I will go buy a CZ P-09/Green, install the CGW Pro-Upgrade Kit, Polish, Dawson Sights & Traction Grip and use it as a complement and possible upgrade to my P-07 Suppressor Ready. My JMCK 2.5 holster and incoming 2.0 holster are both fot the P09, and I can conceal the P-07 with the 15+2 magazines easily enough.
I can’t say I’m ready to replace my G19’s, but the P-07 is certainly head-to-head comparable and each gun has its subtle and occasionally not-so-subtle advantages and disadvantages.
Not-so-subtle advantages of G19: Simplicity of design and ease of work, magazine cost, reload design.
Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Doodie Project?
They are “the best” sights available for the CZ pistol lineup.
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I recently got a P-09 to see what I was missing. I tried it in stock configuration, and found that the DA was a pretty much unusable 13lbs of grit and stacking. The SA pull was uneven and had lots of creep. The reset was longer than I am used to, but Bill Drill times were competitive with Glock or M&P 2.0 shooting SA only. To top things off, the sights hit 4" high at 25 yards with whatever ammunition I tried.
I ordered the CGW pro kit, and found that it was easy to install. The DA was reduced to a still surprisingly heavy 10.5 lbs. It remained grittier than expected as well, but was improved enough that I could make decent hits from the DA draw.
The CGW kit made the reset excellent and improved the SA dramatically. There is still a touch of creep in the SA, but not noticeable unless the trigger is pressed extremely slowly.
After installing the CGW pro kit, the safety would no longer work and my option became de-cocker only.
The 15lb spring caused two light strikes on CCI primers in the first 100 rounds. I never had this problem with any of my other guns and the load I use is well vetted. The 18lb spring was substituted and no further light strikes thus far.
I ordered The Dawson fiber optic sight package, and found that the gun continued to hit 4" high at 25 yards.
The gun is very large, but the grip is quite narrow. I have >95th percentile hands, and even with the large grip insert the grip circumference and reach is on the small side for me. Glocks with large beavertail backstraps, M&P FS or 2.0C with large inserts, and Sig 320's (even the medium grip) as well as older P226 or 92FS with large grip panels all work very well for me. I did not feel like the P-09 fit my hand well. During recoil, it had a tendency to slip a little bit in my hand and the sights did not settle down as consistently as an M&P or Glock. This made it harder to accomplish lower probability hits at speed, and illustrates the point is that there is no "best", "flattest shooting" or "softest shooting" gun. Those answers will be different for everyone, and will depend upon the interaction between the gun and each unique combination of hand size, hand shape, and grip technique.
The good news is that no matter how hard I tried, I could not replicate the de-cocking glitch with either the stock or GCW configuration.
I am underwhelmed so far, but not ready to give up yet. My action plan is as follows:
1. Contact Dawson and get a replacement front sight with a more appropriate height
2. Polish trigger bar etc.
3. I just added an older Hogue grip sleeve that fits the gun extremely well. It seems to help quite a bit, at least with table top handling.
4. 18 lb spring has replaced the 15lb spring.
Last edited by Calvin118; 10-22-2018 at 11:19 PM.
I just picked up a P07 yesterday. I’m looking forward to see whether or not this pistol lives up to all of the hype.
Other than a CGW action job/kit, what else should I change?
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