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Thread: Lessons from Stewart Shootout

  1. #11
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    Chuck makes good points here about leadership and poor tactics that work anyway. I'd just say this: every unit/organization is a direct reflection of its commander.
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  2. #12
    Very Pro Dentist Chuck Haggard's Avatar
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    The sad thing is that before Randy Watt retired they had incredibly good leadership at the helm, with high training standards being the expectation. It didn't take long for poor leadership to let "it's all good" take effect after he left. This sort of thing is always the ending result.

  3. #13
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    Chuck is making several very astute points.

    I see an epic fail in leadership, from all aspects of the chain of command. Right down to the Sergeant in charge of this unit. If they went on a warrant without radios, extra ammunition, no vest, and blowing off any pre-survaliance, it's because they've acted in the same manner in the past and no one called them on it.

    Changing policies for your agency after an incident like this is all well and good. But the officers need to buy into why it's a good idea to do these things. And the first line supervision (Sergeants) need to ensure this is happening.

    And if anyone is misreading what I am trying to say as a slam on Sergeants, it's not. I've spent the last 13 years as a Relief Sergeant. I have some excellent officers. But I have a duty and a responsibility to ensure they don't do stupid stuff that can set themselves up for an epic fail. Like not having a vest, extra ammo and a radio while serving a warrant!

  4. #14
    Very Pro Dentist Chuck Haggard's Avatar
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    One of the great failures I see, in LE or .mil, is the failure of first line supervisors to actually supervise. You are no longer "one of the guys", you are the person responsible for making sure standards are met.

    That dudes went of a hit with no extra ammo, no vests, no long guns, no pre raid recon, poor pre-planning, a SGT that should have been on light duty but didn't want to be (no idea where his supervisor was....), etc., is a train wreck or repeating failures.

    Little things can turn into big things. One guy forgets a magazine, no big deal,,, until it is,,,, and if you let that go then where is the line drawn?

  5. #15
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    The two most important roles in a police agency are the Field Training Officers and the Sergeants. Both must be beyond competent at the jobs in all respects and must be true leaders. Otherwise you're only cloning incompetence and mediocrity. Unfortunately, the latter is fairly routine most places.
    Regional Government Sales Manager for Aimpoint, Inc. USA
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  6. #16
    Site Supporter Coyotesfan97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Haggard View Post
    Denial is a huge human issue in so many areas in life. I often tell people that fortuitous outcomes reinforce bad tactics. That would be in play here.

    This team had never had the kitten shot out of them before, so every raid was going to work just like all of the other raids they had been on where nothing bad ever happened.

    I had to tell one of my guys the other day, while AARing a call that went sideways on him, that the only reason he was alive was because the bad guy didn't want to kill him. We should not leave that choice up to the bad guy, our job is to take away his vote on the matter.
    Man +1 on that. I see bad tactics reinforced because nothing bad happened. We have a defensive tactics instructor who likes to say everything's good until it isn't. He specifically talked about arresting folks by yourself as a bad tactic and don't do it. Shortly after the quarterly training ended solo Officer tries to arrest agitated, uncooperative suspect by himself and gets knocked out. The only reason he's alive is the suspect choose not to kill him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Haggard View Post
    The sad thing is that before Randy Watt retired they had incredibly good leadership at the helm, with high training standards being the expectation. It didn't take long for poor leadership to let "it's all good" take effect after he left. This sort of thing is always the ending result.
    I've met Randy Watt several times. He taught a week long HRT class for us. Several years later he was the evaluator who came out for the NTOA when our Team Commander requested a review so we could look for ways to improve. He is a solid man.

    I expect his AAR on this was pretty brutal.
    Just a dog chauffeur that used to hold the dumb end of the leash.

  7. #17
    Member cutter's Avatar
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    Randy was one of the best officers I worked with. -1 on making his DCU pants into shorts though.

  8. #18
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    After over three decades in law enforcement, it doesn't surprise me that command staff seemed to be absolved of responsibility for this. One of the only times I ever recall a member of command staff being disciplined was the Oakland PD traffic stop/SWAT-entry incident about five years ago.

  9. #19
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    Those commanders were reinstated.

    http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/articl...ck-4526988.php

  10. #20
    Member SecondsCount's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Haggard View Post
    Denial is a huge human issue in so many areas in life. I often tell people that fortuitous outcomes reinforce bad tactics. That would be in play here.

    This team had never had the kitten shot out of them before, so every raid was going to work just like all of the other raids they had been on where nothing bad ever happened.

    I had to tell one of my guys the other day, while AARing a call that went sideways on him, that the only reason he was alive was because the bad guy didn't want to kill him. We should not leave that choice up to the bad guy, our job is to take away his vote on the matter.
    Excellent post.

    There are very few firearms trainers that understand this, even in law enforcement, and military.
    -Seconds Count. Misses Don't-

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