FBI to adopt 9 mm pistols

[Chuck Haggard]

FWIW, in a previous life, I did some .mil contract training. One of the units I worked with were MP's and had access to both M9 and M11's. We could "magically" get better results when the women shot the M11. The size differences may not seem like much but there's just enough difference to matter.

My experiences have been very similar.

[JLM]

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.p...formance-Facts



In other words, there are only TWO wounding mechanisms for both rifle and handgun projectiles and "kinetic energy transfer" is NOT one of them...

Thank you. The reference is for someone else. I believe they have corresponded with you by email in the past.

I appreciate it Doc

[cclaxton]

To add to the thread:http://www.tactical-life.com/firearm...choose-9mm-40/
I have always been a 9mm guy. (380's when deep concealment required)
Cody

[KevinB]

Years ago (up till the 80's) most 9mm NATO was a screamer.

IVI (Canadian) 9mm ball was designed primary for the C1 (Sterling) SMG - and was nasty on handguns - even the BHP's did not like it for very long, and it tore the ass out of the Sig P22X series guns in the CF. -- think ~ 1400fps from a BHP.. it was then downloaded in the 90's when the SMG had been replaced, and the requirement for a SMG load disappeared and longevity of the pistols were a concern.
.


Brit and Aussie was the same based on ammo samples I had at the time.

As the US Mil never had a general issue 9mm SubGun - I don't think that M882 ball ever was loaded to the levels (think ++P++ ) that many of the other NATO Armies loaded 9mm ball to (I have nothing to base that on - other than reasonable assumption).

[nycnoob]

Are there references in the medical literature that dispel the myth of "kinetic energy transfer" as a wounding mechanism from handgun calibers? I'm guessing that's something that's probably extensively covered in Vicent DeMaio's book which is cited by the FTU.

MacPherson's book is quite readable and answers all sorts of questions that I have puzzled over about momentum and other physics issues.
Here is the section you are asking about.

“Bullet Penetration--Modeling the Dynamics and the Incapacitation Resulting from Wound Trauma”.
by Duncan MacPherson
Second Edition 2005

Energy in Bullet impact P 9-13
Energy and Damage P 13-16

Summary

Attempt to determine bullet effectiveness or assign WTI by asserting bullet kinetic energy are doomed to failure for two interconnected reasons:

1) damage is done by stress (force), not energy,

2) an indeterminate by usually large amount of the bullet kinetic energy leads to tissue stresses that are not large enough to cause trauma (especially in hand gun loads)

[stingray]

Howdy,



+1!

For all the 9mm Fan Club members: just how many people have you shot and killed with you 9mm and it's "Magic Bullet"?

Just curious.

Back in the spring during a routine traffic stop a So. Carolina deputy shot an unarmed disabled 70yo man with a 9mm and it's "Magic Bullet". After pulling over to the side of the road, the 70yo man got out of his truck and reach into the bed of his truck for his cane ( he had to have the crane to walk ) and as he pulled the cane into view the deputy fired numerous rounds from his 9mm pistol striking the 70yo at lest once in the stomach at a range of less than 10yds.

The 70yo man never fell but instead he just leaned against his cane and the door of the truck. After the deputy realized what was going on he rushed to help the 70yo man and asked if he was "ok". Man replied "Yes, but it hurts a little." or something like that.

To watch the video google South Carolina deputy shoots 70yo man YouTube.

Heck, here's a link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNLAgJCBjt0&app=desktop

Yeah, I'll stick with a real handgun round.

Paul

What gun and caliber was used. And how do you know? The majority of agencies in SC carry the 40 S&W.

[LittleLebowski]

What gun and caliber was used. And how do you know? The majority of agencies in SC carry the 40 S&W.

Stengun is banned and won't be answering you.

[stingray]

Stengun is banned and won't be answering you.

Oh what a ......shame. Too bad as I have helped train thousands of trainees at the SC Criminal Justice Academy. We see a strong majority of departments using the 40 S&W. So much so that when a different caliber is used, it gets our attention.

The FBI changing to 9mm will be interesting to watch to see if has any effect on choices in the future.