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Thread: The Annoying Rightness of Bolke and Dobbs

  1. #161
    Leopard Printer Mr_White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuanoLoco View Post
    I’m not buying the direct and indirect references to: If you train to shoot fast then you will only be able to shoot fast, and, by inference, in an uncontrolled or less controlled manner in a stressful situation.

    I would argue the people who train to shoot fast and accurately simply have a higher level of technical skill and proficiency. The can ‘see’ and process faster and are better prepared to adapt to changing situations.

    For example, they can dynamically adapt their rate of fire and accuracy requirements more easily than a person who only trains to a slower but equivalently standard level of accuracy, or that never trains to maintain speeds at increasing levels of target difficulty (e.g. El Prez vs. Diamond Cutter).



    FYI that's a 4.02s run with 6 Alphas and 2 close Charlies - at a match.

    And yes, I’ve shot sub 5s El Prez runs with competition gear and pretty good hits, and mid 6s pretty clean runs with concealed carry gear - but does “blazing” like this mean that I can “only” blaze like this when stressed? I think not.
    Nice run there!

    At this point in time, I really think that you have to push to deepen raw skill, and also practice disciplined application of that skill. Both of those things have to be done in order to realize real improvement, and also perform well on demand. A way of reducing or eliminating errors is to shoot in a way that is relatively 'easy' for the person doing it - so probably not at the edges of what they can do, what they have to reach for. This, to me, is the argument for pushing to deepen technical skill. If you want to be able to perform on demand at level X (whatever that is), a foundational aspect of creating that capability is to push significantly beyond that level in practice and training, AND do the work of disciplined application. Then when the test comes, whatever form that takes, level X is easy, which both minimizes technical mistakes and leaves the most mental attention available to manage the circumstances. Competition shooting is one of the most readily available on demand shooting circumstances available - if you want to win at least. People do con themselves into addressing it other ways, but your best score just about always comes from pretty error-free application of your existing skill level.
    Technical excellence supports tactical preparedness
    Lord of the Food Court
    http://www.gabewhitetraining.com

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuanoLoco View Post
    I’m not buying the direct and indirect references to: If you train to shoot fast then you will only be able to shoot fast, and, by inference, in an uncontrolled or less controlled manner in a stressful situation.

    I would argue the people who train to shoot fast and accurately simply have a higher level of technical skill and proficiency. The can ‘see’ and process faster and are better prepared to adapt to changing situations.

    For example, they can dynamically adapt their rate of fire and accuracy requirements more easily than a person who only trains to a slower but equivalently standard level of accuracy, or that never trains to maintain speeds at increasing levels of target difficulty (e.g. El Prez vs. Diamond Cutter).



    FYI that's a 4.02s run with 6 Alphas and 2 close Charlies - at a match.

    And yes, I’ve shot sub 5s El Prez runs with competition gear and pretty good hits, and mid 6s pretty clean runs with concealed carry gear - but does “blazing” like this mean that I can “only” blaze like this when stressed? I think not.
    Technical skill is critical, and more is always better. While most real-world shooting don’t require a high level, there are always outliers. One of my close friends and fellow LSP SWAT guy was caught out in the open by a guy stepping off a porch with a hunting rifle, with no close cover. R drew and put a center hit at 20 yards with a pretty big penalty for being slow or inaccurate.

    I think people get confused when they only focus on one aspect of things to the EXCLUSION of the others or without balance. Technical skill, coolness under pressure, situational awareness, judgement and decision-making under stress are all important. It’s easy to focus on the shooting part to the exclusion of the others because it’s fun and relatively easy compared to honest training in the others.

    The audience also matters. What a good instructor can do with a motivated individual is completely different than teaching at the agency level.

  3. #163
    Site Supporter SeriousStudent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Hearne View Post
    I just caught the Civilian Carry Radio interview with Jared Reston. This was a great interview with lots of gold nuggets. He particularly discussed shooting cadence and how he doesn't try to shoot below the speed of assessment which is right around 0.30. This is a standard developed from shooting meat, not cardboard, and it sounds like he's channeling Bolke/Dobbs.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyamW_G9Uqw&t=4028s
    And our own @jlw as a member of the interview crew.

    I love CCR. Mr James and crew have a terrific program.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by LSP552 View Post
    What a good instructor can do with a motivated individual is completely different than teaching at the agency level.
    Gold.

    There is little to no true "teaching" at the agency level....at least at my agency.

    The impatient instructors are throwing band aid fixes on unmotivated shooters who just want to eek out a rock bottom passing score to get past the yearly qual.

    Two days ago one of our second shift officers came to me for help. I've offered tips, drills, and personal coaching. It'll just cost him a nominal range rental fee and we will have the entire place to ourselves.

    Gonna see how motivated he is in the very near future.

  5. #165
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    This is a great thread! There is lots of insight on what drills/standards are expected.

    @Dagga Boy

    What are your favorite drills today, and what standards are expected? Thanks in advance.

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guinnessman View Post
    This is a great thread! There is lots of insight on what drills/standards are expected.

    @Dagga Boy

    What are your favorite drills today, and what standards are expected? Thanks in advance.
    Well, Darryl and I use these:

    Advanced Super Test, The Test, Half Test (all sets or sub sets of the others), 5 Yard Round Up, Wizard Drill, LAPD D Platoon "A" Qual, Vickers 300, 15 @ 15 and Failures at 3/5/7/10 yards. You can say on all of them that the standards are 100% accuracy on the B-8 bull's 9 and 10 rings within the times for each drill.
    Regional Government Sales Manager for Aimpoint, Inc. USA
    Co-owner Hardwired Tactical Shooting (HiTS)

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Dobbs View Post
    Well, Darryl and I use these:

    Advanced Super Test, The Test, Half Test (all sets or sub sets of the others), 5 Yard Round Up, Wizard Drill, LAPD D Platoon "A" Qual, Vickers 300, 15 @ 15 and Failures at 3/5/7/10 yards. You can say on all of them that the standards are 100% accuracy on the B-8 bull's 9 and 10 rings within the times for each drill.
    Thank you Wayne!

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