To try to make this more of a learning experience, play the same scenario except two citizens that had a fender bender, as opposed to a LE stop. How would folks handle that?
To try to make this more of a learning experience, play the same scenario except two citizens that had a fender bender, as opposed to a LE stop. How would folks handle that?
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
Get on 911, back down the street if the car still drives, stay on the line, be ready to shoot if dude comes after you.Originally Posted by GJM
MUC and create distance. Retreat if at all possible and leave the scene at high speed; notify the authorities. CS spray, if needed, to counter naked, non-physical aggression and create deterrence. Be prepared to go hands on and, if necessary, use deadly force if you have a reasonable fear that you may be killed or grievously wounded.
Like Chuck said, in this particular situation after the bad guy had expressed malicious intent and returned to his vehicle the best option would be to get in and leave.
In my fender-bender experience, I was standing side by side with a large, angry young gentleman who, while I was giving him my insurance information, told me it was my lucky day, because normally he would have just shot me and rolled me into the bushes. I did not react well to that and he called for his baby to bring him his gun.
I had a gun on me at the time. He could have easily overpowered me. I did not create distance, did not return to my car to leave, and did not have a chance if he decided to get aggressive. I was lucky, I think, in that I recognized that he was trying, successfully, to scare me and did not really mean me any harm. I did talk him down and he returned to his vehicle to leave. I followed him to his vehicle and demanded his insurance and ID information as well. He got hostile, made a furtive move to grab *something* from behind his girlfriend's seat, and I went to draw. He froze, I froze and I backed away and we both left.
I froze in a loop much like I think the officer did; luckily my situation turned out differently. But as soon as those words - "normally I would just shoot you twice in the chest and roll you into the bushes" - left the young gentleman's mouth, I should have backed away, gotten into my car, left the scene and notified the authorities while being ready to react to additional aggression. Certainly I should not have escalated the situation by going after him and demanding his information when he was ready to end the encounter. But, pride, you know?
Horrible, never seen this video before. Thankfully, it seems TTPs these days drill in something along the lines of respond to the intent rather than the action when the gun comes into play. I recall seeing a video recently where an officer stood on the hood of the car while firing into the windshield. Back in the 90s, was in uncommon to begin shooting when a gun was displayed? Or rather, did they have to wait until bad guy points to start firing? I'm not a leo obviously, so im curious.
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<Matthew 10:28>
God... Thats awfull.
Not a LEO and I'm probably one of those people who preaches the polite and professional approach to take, but when the guy starts acting squirrelly, dancing and shit my spidey senses would have lead to getting the taser or other non lethal ready for action. IMO the officer had full justification to zap, mace, or club the guy when he charged him. That's definitely aggressive behavior that is justification to do something other than talk. If he was counseled against using force guess that could have put him into the whole Hal2000 conflict of interest loop that cost him his life. SAD. Also IMO when the crazy appearing dude produces a weapon it's time to start shooting at him before he has the chance to deploy his own weapon.
Was there someone in the passenger seat of the truck as well?
From a civilian perspective if I have a fender bender and some guy acts goofy I would drive away while calling 911. A ding to my car ain't worth my life.
As has been stated mindset was the key here. The officer was for some reason stuck at verbal commands. Whether that was his own doing or a conflict cause by some "counseling" should be reviewed thoroughly by his department. If they think that the mode of counseling had any effect on this guys decision making they need to really re think how they go about their business before they put more of their officers at risk.
There's another cop killing video out there that's just about as bad involving Texas DPS Trooper Randy Vetter in Kyle, TX (on IH-35 just south of Austin). He stops a nut case who exits his car with an AR-15 ordering the trooper to disarm. Instead of simply opening fire on this suspect, the trooper verbally challenges....and is shot dead on the spot. This is followed up by even more indecision and dithering about shooting an armed, non compliant suspect by the responding officers. I have the video saved on a flash drive, but am not aware of a 'Net link.
Regional Government Sales Manager for Aimpoint, Inc. USA
Co-owner Hardwired Tactical Shooting (HiTS)
#RESIST
I absolutely hate watching these three videos. I had to stop watching the reenactment when the family pictures came out. I'm fortunate in that I have a partner in my backseat. The Dinkheller suspect would have been wearing a dog after his charge at me. That's an easy one to justify with the crazy dance, the charge, the fighting stance etc. He never would have made it back to his truck.
Just a dog chauffeur that used to hold the dumb end of the leash.
Me too.
#RESIST
I haven't read through all of the above posts; so, my apologies if some of this has been addressed.
This all took place in Laurens County, GA. Laurens County (Dublin) is on I-16 between Macon and Savannah. It's a little over an hour from where I primarily grew up.
This video comes up a lot in training circles. I have been in classes with people who knew Kyle and who responded to the scene. Some of them leave the room for the duration of the video.
At some point, someone made the claim that Kyle was disciplined for drawing his weapon on a stop a few days prior to this, and that story is often repeated. That story is also vehemently refuted by some of the aforementioned people that knew him and responded to the scene.
When back up responded, they did what they could for Kyle. By the time they got around to checking his video, the battery on his car was dead. They had to jump it off to power up the unit. They then removed the VHS cassette tape from the unit and took it to a nearby house to watch.
If you watch the actual dash came video, you will see movement in the perp's truck. That was his dog, and a visual of the dog actually played a part in the perp's discovery. They actually tracked him down through property records and found where he had purchased a track of land locally. He did not live in the county. He lived in Henry County just outside of Atlanta. If you watch the actual dash came video, you will see movement in the perp's truck. That was his dog, and a visual of the dog actually played a part in the perp's discovery.
I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.
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