"Lack of support" for a given pistol?

[JDM]

That's true, but no one on this board seems to be sweating HK completing changing the recoil operation dynamic of their guns by removing the hammer or when Glock changed their spring system. Do some brands get a pass?

Do some brands get a pass? I can only speak for myself, but I'm much more likely to trust an outfit like HK to do something right when designing a new pistol than many other manufactures.

At any rate, while not planning to buy a VP9, if I was, I'd wait for it to be shaken out for a year or so before I committed to it for serious use.


ETR(emove): I misread a post and made a statement that had no bearing on the conversation.

[Handy]

It sounds like you've found your own acceptable level of technology and customization in weapons. There's many of us who like a certain style of night sights, having X amount of magazines and even being able to order surplus spare parts (the inability to do this has happened very recently with at least two companies I can name).

You know, shooting has and will continue to evolve whether we all like it or not. What you consider "tactical doodads" might be considered essential by others who have more recently served, trained, and/or formally competed with their firearms. I for one; like being able to ID my target at night and I even see the personal need for seeing my sights at night. After having a gunshot wound to the arm, I like ambidextrous controls and being able to rack the weapon one handed should need be. I even like bolting on "tactical doodads on my tactical rifle" because I can see the need for a white light, sling, red dot sight, and iron sights. I'm sure that's just modern frippery to you but not to me.

Enjoy all the do-dads you like. I have no issue with them. Specific to my comments, Picatinny rails are standard on all the modern guns, so their ability to mount do-dads is pretty much equal.

Night sights as a factory option also seem to getting universal. You can get them the same place you can buy replacement springs and mags.

Ambidextrous controls are what the gun comes with or available from the factory. Anyone serious about using a pistol for duty ought not to be sticking aftermarket stuff in a pistol's fire control until someone else has validated the reliability of that modification with extensive testing.


That is why I'm unsure why _____ pistol is going to have a support problem. If it has the appropriate controls, night sights, magazines and spare parts available from CS, and you can mount all the goodies on its universal rail, then encase it all in the custom holster of your choice (which is almost a necessity once you start hanging stuff on the rail), how is a Ruger or Steyr (for instance) "unsupported"?


As far as Gen 4 Glocks go, I don't know what everyone here is thinking, but reading the Sig 320 thread made me think that certain brands seem more likely for forum members to vote for with dollars than others. I would even go as far as thinking that when people like Todd Green choose to do an endurance test on HKs and Glocks but not brand X, that might be one of the reasons brand X is "untested" or "unpopular". This forum appears to have connections to some of the people that influence the market.

[Handy]

As far as night sights being a fad? Nonsense. They may not be something you feel necessary, but they certainly aren't pistol bayonets, either.

Would you please quote where I indicated night sights were fad?



Just so everyone is clear, I don't have a bone to pick. I am genuinely interested in what support means when most of the items discussed are easily available factory parts, like mags and springs. This is a very interesting and thoughtful forum compared to any I've run across before, but some ideas are discussed in a way I don't always understand.

[orionz06]

Ruger is generally unpopular because most of their handguns are crap.

[1slow]

Logistics!
A military grade durable weapon that has parts and support available is essential for serious purposes.
If you shoot a lot and CCW you have to keep the pistols running. Spare guns, mags, spare parts, holsters, night sights, accessories.
If I have to send it in for parts, I will not depend on it !
I started on stock Colt 1911 in 1973 but weapons evolved and so did my training. Can I shoot the stock 1973 1911 series 70 ? Yes but why handicap myself in a lethal fight ? I want all the advantage I can get.

[LittleLebowski]

As far as Gen 4 Glocks go, I don't know what everyone here is thinking, but reading the Sig 320 thread made me think that certain brands seem more likely for forum members to vote for with dollars than others. I would even go as far as thinking that when people like Todd Green choose to do an endurance test on HKs and Glocks but not brand X, that might be one of the reasons brand X is "untested" or "unpopular". This forum appears to have connections to some of the people that influence the market.

Perhaps you should start a "things about pistol-forum.com that I don't like" thread. Or not, just continue to get in passive aggressive remarks about our community until you get shown the door.

Todd's done tests on S&Ws, HKs, Glocks, Springfields, and was beginning a SIG test until his health problems canceled that for the time being. That seems like a somewhat wide gamut of the industry, no? Or is it a conspiracy? Or rampant fanboys?

[JDM]

Would you please quote where I indicated night sights were fad?

My apologies, I missed the word "shape" after fashionable when reading your paragraph about sights.

[Byron]

Why do people hold an opinion that is different than mine?

Here are my reasons.

Those reasons aren't good enough. Why do people hold an opinion that is different than mine?

Here are my reasons.

I don't agree with those reasons. Why do people hold an opinion that is different than mine?

Here are my reasons.

I refuse to believe those reasons are even rooted in reality. Why do people hold an opinion that is different than mine?

Here are my reasons.

It's clear you guys are just brand loyalists with shadowy conspiracies lurking beneath the surface. I can't believe anyone can't give me one solid good reason.

[CCT125US]

I have passed up multiple "good deals" simple because my choosen sight combo is not available. Silly or not, IMO the sights are one of the final interfaces between the shooter and target. I know what I like at this point in the game when it comes to sights. If a gun is unsupported by the sight maker, that is a deal breaker me.

[Handy]

Perhaps you should start a "things about pistol-forum.com that I don't like" thread. Or not, just continue to get in passive aggressive remarks about our community until you get shown the door.

Todd's done tests on S&Ws, HKs, Glocks, Springfields, and was beginning a SIG test until his health problems canceled that for the time being. That seems like a somewhat wide gamut of the industry, no? Or is it a conspiracy? Or rampant fanboys?

Sir, please re-read my posts, the other posts on this thread and contrast them with your first post and Byron's inaccurate lampoon. Who is being aggressive?

There is no conspiracy, implied or real. The most popular selling guns are M&Ps, Glocks, Springfield XDs, Sigs, HK (and 1911s). They most actively pursue police contracts, shooting teams, in house training, etc. They should be on Todd's radar. The fact that FNs, Berettas, Rugers, Steyrs etc aren't as popular makes them less likely to get attention, less likely to be tested and less likely to be accepted as top tier guns - even if they actually are.