Five Gov't Programs That Are Successful

[rob_s]

I am not trying to tell people what they can and can't do.

Actually, I think you are. And it wasn't until this thread and the obvious leanings contained in the OP that I really understood why.

[rob_s]

Also, it's unfair to use today's knowledge and wisdom to cast judgements that were made many years/decades ago. Decisions were made based on best available information and wisdom AT THAT TIME. As time goes on and as we learn we have to make changes. (A lot like shooting).

on this I agree with you. Every time some dimwit cries about Christopher Columbus or Andrew Jackson I think the exact same thing.

But the government programs you cite do not fall under this heading. The government programs you cote are ongoing. Tonic tinue the comparison, it would be as if in 2014 the US Army was riding into Detroit to gun down the undesirables to clear the way for progress.

[RevolverRob]

I find it interesting that we're all very quick to point out what the founding fathers intended for the 2nd A, but we're not discussing it with this topic.

Someone pointed out to me, correctly I feel, that if we were to take up arms and overthrow the government - The grand experiment that is our country is over. Certainly, we might be able to recreate a portion of what our founding fathers put forth, in the same way that they recreated themselves aspects of the unwritten British constitution. But we would have run our course and be finished as a country. It is very easy to think we could re-write or rebuild efficiently, I do not believe we can.

Have we forgotten that the first Continental Congress was convened in 1774 and it was not until 1789 that the revolution was concluded, the constitution written, ratified, and placed into effect? Fifteen years is a long time in a world where technological advancements and competing interests exist. There are nearly 315 million Americans today with competing interests, today. In 1774? 3.9 million. We are nearly 100 times larger today...

No, I feel that while we have recourse (voting, judicial recourse for finding and prosecuting criminals) we should use them. I haven't yet given up hope (in the true sense) that we can be successful. I do, however, think that we are nearing the beginning of a point of no return, an event horizon if you will, that will radically change the game.

[rob_s]

Someone pointed out to me, correctly I feel, that if we were to take up arms and overthrow the government - The grand experiment that is our country is over. Certainly, we might be able to recreate a portion of what our founding fathers put forth, in the same way that they recreated themselves aspects of the unwritten British constitution. But we would have run our course and be finished as a country. It is very easy to think we could re-write or rebuild efficiently, I do not believe we can.

Have we forgotten that the first Continental Congress was convened in 1774 and it was not until 1789 that the revolution was concluded, the constitution written, ratified, and placed into effect? Fifteen years is a long time in a world where technological advancements and competing interests exist. There are nearly 315 million Americans today with competing interests, today. In 1774? 3.9 million. We are nearly 100 times larger today...

No, I feel that while we have recourse (voting, judicial recourse for finding and prosecuting criminals) we should use them. I haven't yet given up hope (in the true sense) that we can be successful. I do, however, think that we are nearing the beginning of a point of no return, an event horizon if you will, that will radically change the game.

Not being a big history buff I really don't know the answer to this, but has there ever been a society that has done anything other than reach a pinnacle and then devolve to the point that it either eats itself or succumbs to a stronger outside threat?

[BaiHu]

Entropy. It's not just for science class.

[fixer]

Entropy. It's not just for science class.

"Four Laws of Thermodynamics that have been successful"

[RevolverRob]

Not being a big history buff I really don't know the answer to this, but has there ever been a society that has done anything other than reach a pinnacle and then devolve to the point that it either eats itself or succumbs to a stronger outside threat?

Not that I am aware of. I think the longest running confederation/nation-state we have existing today is Sweden (established monarchy in 1523). Obviously, there were civilizations in the past that experienced long periods of prosperity (Persia, Greece, Roman Empire, Ancient and Medieval China and Japan, the Holy Roman Empire, Ottoman, Ancient Egypt, Mayan, Incan etc.) but all of them were ultimately lost. And even the longest running ones we have today like Switzerland (established originally in 1291) were conquered (in this case by Napoleon) and altered radically at some point. Although in the case of Switzerland after that it came back together in the same confederation (more or less) that had existed since 1291.