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Thread: Cheating Scandal in USPSA

  1. #41
    Site Supporter NEPAKevin's Avatar
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    I don't think there is just cause to condemn USPSA, or any other shooting sport that relies to some extent on the honor system, as so far this is about just one guy playing on the trust of a community consisting of vastly sportsmanlike if ball busting individuals. OTOH, at the level of professional shooters, rigging the scores could effect everything from cash payouts to sponsorship potential and might be more than just ethical wrong doing. The real shame is smear on all the good guys who have done their best to fairly referee over the years and with out whose efforts there would be no shooting sports.
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  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by PPGMD View Post
    Well Caleb posted an update, PH's RO creds have been suspended, and Chuck Anderson is in charge of the investigation.

    Though USPSA hasn't posted a thing about this anywhere I can see. Unless it is in the USPSA forum.

    Someone needs to check to make sure PH isn't scheduled to RO the IPSC World Shoot.
    USPSA won't issue a public statement until their internal investigation is concluded. As I noted, it takes a minimum of 7 days according to USPSA bylaws to even convene a BoD meeting, which will likely then move to Exec Session anyway, so no one will ever know what's discussed.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by caleb View Post
    USPSA won't issue a public statement until their internal investigation is concluded. As I noted, it takes a minimum of 7 days according to USPSA bylaws to even convene a BoD meeting, which will likely then move to Exec Session anyway, so no one will ever know what's discussed.
    A public "We are looking into it" statement would be nice.

    I would prefer something more formal for something this major.

  4. #44
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    If this is true, then Doom on him.

    But, just to play devil's advocate and use a little Hanlon's razor, could these instances be explained by a faulty timer? Is the calibration checked every so often or something? How does one know that their shot timer is GTG?

  5. #45
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    1) 3) can he time and score my next two FAST runs.

    .
    If he takes a dislike to you, he'll ADD time. Just sayin'
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  6. #46
    Member Sheep Have Wool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sotex View Post
    If this is true, then Doom on him.

    But, just to play devil's advocate and use a little Hanlon's razor, could these instances be explained by a faulty timer? Is the calibration checked every so often or something?
    Once again, I don't shoot USPSA, nor any other shooting sport. But it seems odd that his timer would consistently malfunction in a way that helps his friends and damages other shooters. I also feel that the lifetime ban is completely appropriate after the BoD has completed its investigation.

    And just because memes are fun to make:
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  7. #47
    Butters, the d*** shooter Byron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cclaxton View Post
    Our American society is stronger when we apologize for our offenses, pay the consequences and be given forgiveness. The consequence should fit the offense.
    No one's trying to lock the guy up. Rather, an organization must decide whether they want a person to continue participating in said organization.

    In your past defense of the IDPA, you've had this to say:
    Quote Originally Posted by cclaxton View Post
    People will find fault with ANY sport, from football to Olympic shooting. But good sportsmanship is universal to every one. The playing field should be fair and clear of distractions and diversions and inappropriate behavior.
    I think a man who engaged in years of systematic cheating is the complete opposite of a good sportsman. The playing field should be fair and clear of him, regardless of whether he's actually scoring people. Or does the playing field only need to be clear of dirty words, while dirty men are OK?

    Your proposed solution is:
    Quote Originally Posted by cclaxton View Post
    Lifetime ban on running a timer, keeping score or officiating. 2 year ban on participating in USPSA.
    Where did you come up with a figure of 2 years?

    In all major sports that I can think of, consequences tend to cover a longer timeline than the offense. For example, leagues frequently bench players, sometimes games (or seasons) at a time, based on acute incidents of unsportsmanlike conduct.

    So far, there is evidence of at least 4 years worth of cheating. You are proposing that his participation ban be shorter than the amount of time that he's actively been screwing over the sport.
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  8. #48
    Butters, the d*** shooter Byron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sotex View Post
    ...could these instances be explained by a faulty timer?
    Not if you watch enough of the videos. There are easily identifiable patterns of certain people getting a break, with others getting screwed. There's also a pattern of these doctored scores never being shown to anyone else: just yelled out. If it were the timer's fault, there should be plenty of footage of other people confirming the values that he screams out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sotex View Post
    Is the calibration checked every so often or something? How does one know that their shot timer is GTG?
    If we were talking about 0.01 differences, that might be under consideration, though this issue would never have been raised were that the case. Some videos show differences of 3 seconds: noticeable with even the crappiest stopwatch, and completely beyond any realistic argument about poor calibration.
    "If you run into an a**hole in the morning, you ran into an a**hole. If you run into a**holes all day, you're the a**hole." - Raylan Givens

  9. #49
    Leopard Printer Mr_White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cclaxton View Post
    Lifetime ban on running a timer, keeping score or officiating. 2 year ban on participating in USPSA.
    Emotions are running high right now, and it is usually the worse time to make a decision on punishment.

    Our American society is stronger when we apologize for our offenses, pay the consequences and be given forgiveness. The consequence should fit the offense.

    In this case it wasn't his participation in shooting, but it was his role as RO. Sure, I might be mad at him for negatively altering my score, but let's put this into context: The impact on individual shooters was minimal. Unless you had this RO more than 50% of the time and he consistently downgraded your time, the law of averages are still in your favor. I just don't see the argument for how badly it affected a particular shooter and more importantly, whether any financial injury occurred. Bragging rights might have been affected, but frankly not much value in that. Whether a club wants to allow him to shoot after 2 years (in my judgement) is up to them and to the shooters at his club or clubs. If he came and shot on a squad at Quantico with me, I could care less as long as he doesn't run the timer or write the scores down.

    USPSA has a much stronger case to make that it affected the good reputation of the organization and, could potentially sue for damages to their reputation. That has a cost-benefit analysis as well, and probably doesn't pay to sue unless the guy is rich.

    I don't have a dog in this fight, so...whatever.
    Cody

    The evidence is extensive and quite clear.

    This guy has undermined the integrity of a basic part of the entire sport, the other shooting sports, and has effectively cast at least a little suspicion on ROs in general (Shotmaxx timers = sold out) and also on the shooters he 'helped', many of whom were surely unaware of it.

    Lifetime ban from any participation whatsoever should be minimum, though I'm not sure what can be done beyond that. Maybe someone has standing to sue him. I would want any other shooting sports to ban him too.

    I am confident in Chuck heading up the investigation for USPSA BOD. At the end of all of this, if BOD fails to deliver a lifetime ban, I hope the membership delivers it by categorically refusing to shoot with him, RO him, or be RO'd by him.
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  10. #50
    Member John Hearne's Avatar
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    In addition to the desire for the Shotmaxx, it seems like the time is ripe for the "Official" timer to send a start signal to the Shotmaxx so that everything is synched.

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