Switching Duty Weapons

[TSH]

I apologize if this should be in the Law Enforcement forum, but I thought I might get more input from members here...

I am a fairly new LEO. I have been off probation for a while now, but I still like to consider my options. This is a second career for me, and I tend to take a more thoughtful approach to my job than many of my coworkers. If I am off-base here, or placing emphasis on something that is really not that important, feel free to point it out to me.

I am a member of a large (though not the largest) West Coast Sheriff's Department. Our weapons policy, I am discovering, is incredibly liberal. I can carry just about anything, as long as it is chambered in 9mm, .40, or .45. The department will supply my duty ammo (currently HST, with the heaviest bullet for the caliber I choose). Additionally, they supply the practice ammo, and I can go in weekly to use the range on their dime. Our issued weapon is a Gen 3 G22 and a Safariland ALS holster. Typically, that is what you observe, but I see Sigs, HKs, and 1911s regularly. As I'm sure most of you can attest, most cops are not "gun guys", and will carry whatever is free. Though I have always owned guns, I didn't care about them much, either, until they became one of the tools I rely on.

The Glock I was issued is pretty reliable. I have had a few FTFs, etc. here and there, but nothing that makes me distrust the weapon. I don't currently mount a light on it, but I would like to. Those coworkers that do mount a light often end up switching to a different weapon altogether soon after. I also really like the ALS holster, and insist on staying with that system, unless someone more experienced can make a good case that something else is better.

I qualify with the Glock easily, but my scores with my off-duty weapon are consistently higher. My off-duty weapon is a HK P2000 LEM in 9mm. Originally, I was using a Gen 4 G23 off-duty to maintain similarity between on and off-duty weapons, but I also appendix carry, and I was uncomfortable with carrying a safety-less striker fired pistol that way. I prefer to carry in that position because it is easier for me to conceal a reasonably large pistol.

I am thinking of purchasing a second P2000 and using that as my duty weapon. I can mount a X300 to it, and the ALS holster is available for that pistol. Additionally, it has a track record of reliability. I do not care about the whole 9mm vs. .40 cal debate, as I find it hard to believe there is a meaningful difference between the two, whether I am shooting through car doors or not. I have read Nyeti's opinion about the suitability of the LEM trigger system for law enforcement, and it made a lot of sense to me. The down sides I see for the P2000 are the diminished capacity of the magazines, the compact size of the weapon, and the lack of a safety. The safety is only a issue because of concerns I have regarding the admittedly remote possibility of losing my weapon in a fight. That is part of the reason I like the ALS system so much.

My questions are: 1) would I be better off purchasing a P3000S TDA instead? Safariland does not make a holster for that weapon with a light installed, but I have read that the ALS holster for the Sig P229 with x300 fits the HK like it was made for it, so I think my holster choice is covered. 2) Am I over-emphasizing the safety issue, and does the use of the ALS mitigate the need for a safety the way I think it does?

At the end of the day, I would like my off-duty and on-duty weapons to be as similar as possible.

If there is any angle I am not considering, let me know.

[Dos Cylindros]

I would consider the HK P30L in LEM. Safariland makes a holster for it with a WML. Same trigger as your P2000 and the P30 mags will work in your P2000 for reloads. You would also maintain your 15 round capacity with the P30.

[SamuelBLong]

P30 or P30L would work for you, and they have a good track record. 13 in the P2000 isn't ideal, but it's better than other options.

Yes the ALS system is the way to go. I've moved over to them 100% from the SLS, and in pressure testing my gear, I'm not having any accidental releases of the retention mechanism(s) like I did with the SLS. ALS is also nice cause you don't need to relock any hood while you go hands on. As far as having a safety on the gun to save you in a gun grab... I wouldn't rely on that, or any retention mechanism being the thing to save you at all. A small fixed blade and good tactics is what you need for that situation.

Personally, I carry the same gun, same ammo for EDC as I do when wearing my batman belt. I'll only carry something different if the circumstances dictate... ie gym / fight shorts & a t-shirt at Crossfit, or other situations where I can't have an untucked polo.

[Lon]

P30 or P30L for sure. The gen 3 40s with WML would be the last thing I'd carry. Without a WML, sure. But not with.

If I could, I'd carry a P30 both on and off duty instead of my 229.

[Trooper224]

Sounds like you're taking the right approach. I'd also recommend the P30 as a duty weapon for you. Use the P2000 for off duty use and you should have a good system to work with.

[DocGKR]

How about a G17 or G19?

[wilco423]

...but I have read that the ALS holster for the Sig P229 with x300 fits the HK like it was made for it...

I have heard this as well, but can anyone verify it from personal experience? Safariland makes a 6280 for the P30L with a light, but no ALS series.

[Dos Cylindros]

How about a G17 or G19?

Doc,

I would have recommended the M&P 40 or M&P 9 in my original reply but his initial post made it seem as though he wanted to maintain continuity with his off duty P2000. OP, if you are not set on the HK system, then I would strongly consider the M&P series of guns for a duty weapon. I carried the Glock 22 for the first 12 years of my LE career until I switched to my current department which issues the M&P 40. My previously issued G22 had occasional issues with a weapon mounted light, but I am at nearly 8,000 (an approximation) on my M&P 40 and have never had a malfunction other than one I purposefully induced in training (I did have one dead primer on a round of RA40T that could not be set off by another gun either). The M&P is, in my opinion and experience a much better platform than the Glock (especially in .40).

For the price of an HK, you could buy a full size M&P, along with an M&P compact for off duty and you would be all set. Two guns that can share mags and holsters that have the exact same operating procedures. Food for thought.

[HCM]

Op,

The P2000 is certainly a viable uniformed duty gun. The U.S.Border Patrol and U.S. Customs and Border Protection have issued the P2000 v2 LEM for nearly a decade with very few issues. BORTAC, the USBP "SWAT" team recently adopted the P30L V4 LEM.

Nothing against the HK, I carried a USP C v2 LEM 40 as a duty gun for 8 years, however, if you have access to a Glock 9mm you might want to try one to see if you shoot your HK better than your issued Glock because you shoot HK's better or if its just because you shoot 9mm better than .40.

If you really want a thumb safety, the USP compact is the same size and takes the same mags as the P2000 and can be configured as an LEM with a thumb safety. They make an ALS for it but not with the light as far as I know.

[TSH]

How about a G17 or G19?

This was my original thought. Blue label Glocks are inexpensive, and a gen 4 G22 or 17 will fit in to my existing holster. But I'm still stuck with an off-duty that has no external safety or hammer. Additionally, I seem to shoot that P2000 better. Originally, I thought it was just a matter of recoil difference between 9mm and .40, but the difference existed when shooting a department G17, also. Other than that, I like the Glock, just not for off-duty carry.

Interestingly, I find my wrist doesn't seem to adapt to the Glock grip angle very well. If I dry fire regularly, my sights are lined up, even with my eyes closed. If I go a week or two without practice, however, I start pointing the pistol high. Most of my coworkers don't seem to have that problem, but a few others do. I don't consider this a deal breaker for Glock, however - it just requires a little practice to overcome.

I really appreciate the simplicity and engineering of the Glock, but I am still uncomfortable reholstering it in a aiwb rig. One aspect of the Glock that I really like is the positivity of the trigger reset. I know that shouldn't matter, but I like it nonetheless.