"Bullet designs like the...Hydra-Shok...were state of the art 15 or 20 years ago. These older bullets tend to plug up and act like FMJ projectiles when shot through heavy clothing; they also often have significant degradation in terminal performance after first passing through intermediate barriers..." - DocGKR
Considering the above is 45ACP preferable to 9mm in the Hydra-Shok line?
If sticking with ATK, then HST, Gold Dot, or even Federal Tactical are all better choices than using Hydra Shok in any caliber.
Facts matter...Feelings Can Lie
Issued P9HS1 or P45HS1.
If you have the option, carefully assess what your service pistol and handgun caliber needs are, based on potential engagement scenarios, objective measurements of skill including scores and times, and ancillary factors. For most LE duties, there are a lot of advantages in carrying a 9 mm: easy to shoot-- especially one handed, relatively inexpensive to practice with, lots of bullets immediately on tap. When I injured my strong hand a few years ago and lost its use for several months, I found out how much more effective I was using a G19 weak handed compared to a .45 ACP 1911. In short, go 9 mm.
Facts matter...Feelings Can Lie
If those were my choices I'd look at what gun I was stuck with and make the decision from there. Lets say it's a gen 3 G17 vs a G21, no question for me since the g21 is too big for my hands to run effectively one handed, so between one crappy choice in ammo vs another I'd go with the better weapon system for me.
Although we got inconsistent performance from the Hydrshock 9mm, both 124gr and 147gr, when well placed even poorly designed bullets tend to work.
I will add my vote to the platform determining caliber. Having used both .45 ACP and 9mm as a duty gun, it would be VERY hard for me to pick .45ACP again. The bottom line FOR ME, is I just shoot the 9mm (SIG and Glock) significantly better at speed. Even in the stone age of bullet design, placement ruled. LSP never had horror stories when using HS or even the old Win 147 OM load. They work when applied in the right place, at good speed and volume. Certainly there are better choices today, but I'd take a good 9mm platform and learn to drive it to the best of my ability.
Ken
The reason I tell people to buy something other than Hydrashock in the 9mm is that we had real world performance issues with both the 147gr and later the 124gr. Bullets would often clog on heavy clothing like coats and fail to mushroom, or they would over expand and fragment the mushroom portion off of the bullet leading to underpenetration. We even had one OIS where we saw both extremes in the same shooting.
I have no idea if the .40 or .45s act that way as well, but I suspect the failing to expand is a common theme in that bullet design.
We didn't. It worked quite well for us. In fact, several of our shootings were chosen for me to present at the second FBI Wound Ballistic Seminar at Quantico in 1993. And it wasn't a cherry-pick deal, either. One was an upper arm hit, not really debilitating at all, but the dude gave it up. That one was chose to illustrate psychological incapacitation.Originally Posted by Chuck Haggard
IMO, too many folks get too wrapped around the handle over handgun bullet "performance". Its a pistol, people… you cannot expect much. Yes, we want to use the best available… but what is that? The 10% Kind & Knox ballistic gelatin is the best comparator we have come up with so far; but you gotta remember it is a COMPARATOR, nothing more. It was NEVER intended to be used as some do today… i.e., the be-all/end-all proclamator of what's the "best" bullet in a given caliber.
Now, before you light the torches and grab the pitchforks, be aware that _I_ am aware of the gelatin tests' usefullness (is that a word?). But it simply presents a level playing field on which to COMPARE one bullet/load against others. It does NOT represent a median indicator of what happens when those same bullets meet flesh.
Next month makes five years I've been working at a large state crime lab. We look at, on the average, two or three "meat bullets" (those taken from a body or corpse) a week. Believe me when I say that I have seen just as many FMJ bullets that caused death as any other type. I've also seen a 124gr Gold Dot taken from a corpse that could have been used in an advertisement photograph. I've seen bonded bullets sheared into two pieces after hitting bone.
The point here is, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW what a bullet is going to do in meat until it does it. There are too many variables at play. I am not trying to minimize the observations of others; but having been involved in shooting investigations as an FTU head, and now especially looking at things from the forensic side of the house, have shown me that most folks still believe there is a magic bullet out there.
Trust me…at our current state of the art, there isn't.
.
All performance issues aside, you really gotta hand it to Federal's marketing dept. with the Hydra-Shok. Now there's a brand name with some staying power...
Our agency's OIS experience with the 124 HS prior to going to the G22 mirrors Chuck's. In fact, we weren't terribly impressed with the OIS performance of the 155 HS in .40 either. We switched to the Tactical Bonded in 155 and it worked much better for us.
Reply With Quote