M&P Chop?

[rsa-otc]

Epoxy the mag base and that complies. Makes it a mess to clean the mags later though. Your other option is to buy 10 rounders and sell the 15's to someone out of state prior to the law going into effect.

I was in the process of getting a 9mm. I'm holding off until I see which way Christie swings.

I have 4 new in the bag NJ currently legal 15 round M&P9 mags. If this go thru I either have to block them or sell them to someone in CO.

[DocGKR]

These magazine limit laws are illogical and dangerous. The vast majority of artificially neutered low capacity magazines do NOT function reliably enough for self-defense or LE use. There is a reason the armorer courses for many manufacturers specifically state to NOT use neutered 10 rd magazines for duty use. We ran yet another test on 10 rd G17 and G19 magazines this week--again all the neutered magazines had failures to feed correctly causing malfunctions while the standard capacity 17 and 15 rd magazines worked perfectly.

[TheTrevor]

That's why I strongly prefer to use standard mags retrofitted with capacity limiters rather than factory 10-round mags, even though I've never had trouble with HK's 10-rounders.

[TheTrevor]

Unfortunately this probably does not meet NJ's requirement that the modification be permanent. The state does not define "permanent" but a pretty good case could be made that this block can be easily replaced by a new follower to restore it to full capacity. Most folks here epoxy a plastic dowel to the bottom of the magazine tube and epoxy the base plate to the body. Since this means it can never be disassembled for cleaning it would be unacceptable to me for any firearm I rely on.

Under CA law, disassembling a 10-round magazine, replacing a part with an attached capacity-limiting device, and reassembling the resulting standard-capacity "assault clip" is considered manufacturing a non-compliant magazine.

If a LEO disassembled one of my magazines, made any change to its configuration, and reassembled it into a standard capacity magazine, my defense would be that HE was the one who manufactured a standard-cap mag, not me.

Not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, etc etc. Just wanted to share my viewpoint as someone who works to stay within the law while also running functional, reliable magazines.

[KevinB]

All you folks in occupied states with stupid mag laws need to start aggressive information campaigns...

I was in Quantico a few months ago and a very smart member of HRT pointed out major reasons that mag laws are asinine (I already agree on that but he was talking to some others)
1) We have laws against murder
2) Average Police Response
3) Mag change Speed
4) Criminals don't give a shit about laws

Resulting in Law Abiding citizens getting screwed for a zero sum (or most likley decrease) in public safety.

[TheTrevor]

Agreed.

[LorenzoS]

If a LEO disassembled one of my magazines, made any change to its configuration, and reassembled it into a standard capacity magazine, my defense would be that HE was the one who manufactured a standard-cap mag, not me.

Well in NJ there is no definition of "permanently modified" but the burden is on the accused to prove innocence. There is a pretty good chance that you would be convicted of a 2nd degree felony because the LEO demonstrated that you possessed a magazine that was not permanently modified. State prison for you.

[TheTrevor]

Well in NJ there is no definition of "permanently modified" but the burden is on the accused to prove innocence. There is a pretty good chance that you would be convicted of a 2nd degree felony because the LEO demonstrated that you possessed a magazine that was not permanently modified. State prison for you.

Interesting. Can you please provide reference to a legally binding state AG opinion letter or relevant court case where this was established as the standard in NJ? I'm always interested in precedents applying to these laws.

As noted, my comments referred to CA, where there have been no binding opinion letters or case law establishing anything like what you describe regarding NJ.

[LorenzoS]

A large capacity ammunition magazine that has been permanently altered so that it is not capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition will cease to be defined as a "large capacity ammunition magazine." An ammunition magazine, which has been temporarily blocked or modified from holding more than 15 rounds, as by a piece of wood or a pin, is still considered to be a "large capacity ammunition magazine."

http://www.njsp.org/info/pdf/firearm...itle13ch54.pdf

[Lomshek]

Interesting. Can you please provide reference to a legally binding state AG opinion letter or relevant court case where this was established as the standard in NJ? I'm always interested in precedents applying to these laws.

As noted, my comments referred to CA, where there have been no binding opinion letters or case law establishing anything like what you describe regarding NJ.

My advice to anyone trying to deal with poorly worded and vague laws with a political bent to them that can be enforced on a whim when a person comes to the attention of officials who are probably anti-gun is assume the worst. Whether one is prosecuted (or just charged and allowed to plea down) on something like that will depend why and how one came to the attention of the authorities and which authority's attention you attracted.

As an example a very capable and aware friend of mine was doing an internship in NYC this summer. He opted for just carrying a small folder for SD knowing what kind of hate NYC brings to illegal handgunners. While waiting for a bus a couple cops come driving or walking by and scan the bus stop people and spot the pocket clip of his knife.

They isolate him and inspect the knife. Being a smarty he knew that small folders are legal as long as they require two hands to open as his does (he thought). One of the cops tries to single handed flip it open about a dozen times flipping as hard as he can until it finally opens. At this point he's informed that it's an illegal knife.

During the conversation they find out he's a former LEO moving to medical and out of professional courtesy (yeah I know) let him keep the knife with the admonishment to stuff it in his pocket lest some less understanding cop haul him in on a weapons violation.

My point being that his idea of one handed operation and the LEO on the street was different and he was facing a career altering charge had things gone slightly differently with the cops he interacted with. He also learned that two handed means it is locked closed and impossible to open not just a really stiff spring keeping it closed.