Duty Gun Breakdown

[KevH]

My PD has a very broad policy. We issue S&W M&P 40's and allow most S&W, Glock, H&K, Sig, Beretta and Springfield Armory guns. You have a choice of 9mm, 40 S&W or 45 ACP. Our policy allows modification so long as its approved by dept armorers. We're pretty lenient and have a lot of aftermarket barrels and triggers (Ghost, Apex, etc) in service. We also have a lot of polymer grips modified including guns done by Bowie, Boresight and Robar.

If you attend a 10 hour "transition course" you can carry a 1911 so long as it has a few modern enhancements in place. We have mainly Wilson Combat, Ed Brown and Nighthawks running around.

I've carried a few different guns in my career. From 2008 to 2013 I carried 1911's (a SA Pro Operator then a Jardine Colt).

I decided late last year that I was done with the 1911 and was going back to Glocks in 9mm.

I now opt to carry a Gen3 G17 with a Wilson Combat barrel, Sevigny sights, Vickers mag catch and "Dot" connector.

At the beginning of 2014 I was the only one of 160 cops carrying a 9mm. I took some crap from the other firearms guys initially. I'm part of our firearms team so people seem to notice what I'm carrying. Since then a few guys have shot my gun and have switched to the G17 as well (although theirs are stock Gen4 guns). I predict that as time progresses more will follow my lead.

My honest opinion (although contrary to some on this site) is that a stock pre-2008 Gen3 Glock 9mm or latest batch Glock Gen4 9mm make the best duty guns. All you really need to do is put on a good set of sights. Most of the other major brand 9mm's (especially guns made in the 1990's) are good to go as well.

[Andrew E]

Where I used to work, it was G22C with factory night sights and a WML (Streamlight M3 or TLR-1 LED, issued--I had the M3 but no say in the matter) and no modifications allowed, aside from nonpermanent grip enhancements. Couple guys had those Hogue sleeves, several installed grip plugs, and at least one guy had Talon-type skateboard tape grips on his.

I tried the Hogue once at range and swore off ever trying anything else again...until I took a look at the purpose-made tape kit on a SWAT guy's pistol.
Wound up leaving the agency before I had a chance to try it, but ever since I've debated acquiring one for my personal G19.

[Beat Trash]

We issue the M&P9 or the M&P9c for those in plain cloths assignments that want the smaller gun. Any and all modifications must be approved and done by the range staff. The only thing they will let the end user do is to replace the grip inserts. I had them replace the factory night sights with a set of the Ameripro with the orange front sight post (SW-447). These really help my middle aged eyes see the front sight. Other than replacing the sights at the officer's cost, that's about the extent of the modifications permitted.

A WML is optional (at the officer's cost for light and Safarliand holster). There is no restriction on the type of WML, so long as the combo fits inside of the Safariland holster.

[HCM]

Working for the Feds, we issue SIG 229 DAK in .40 and only allow Hogue grips as an option. The reason we require an armorer to change the grips? You know ham many frames are destroyed every year by people torqueing down grip screws instead of just dabbing a bit of blue lock tight on them? The answer is a lot…

We're not the only agency which has had this issue with grip screws and P-229 frames. SIG lost a couple of large LE Agency contracts due to an excessive number of guns being deadlined because of frames with stripped out grip screw holes and is the reason E2 grips don't use grip screws.

[psalms144.1]

We're not the only agency which has had this issue with grip screws and P-229 frames. SIG lost a couple of large LE Agency contracts due to an excessive number of guns being deadlined because of frames with stripped out grip screw holes and is the reason E2 grips don't use grip screws.

Not only do I ROUTINELY see agents in my FO carrying their issued Sigs with rubber bands or electrical tape around the grips because of multiple missing grip screws, but we're having a KITTEN of a time getting any grip screws as replacement from Sig. Not sure what about those screws makes them (a) so easy to back out and (b) so hard to find as replacements, but it's a fact of life for us...

[Haraise]

Great thread, very timely. Trying to set up duty gun regs for where I'm working, it's good to see some feedback by the end users and what problems have come up, what was liked and what would be good to change. The ten hour 1911 course is a pretty good idea, hadn't thought of that.

[KevinB]

I would suggest the 1911 course be 20, or better 40 hours -- mainly as they are a maintenance pig. Unless you have a dedicated armorer team the user needs to be able to detail strip for cleaning and drying...

I used to be big on 1911/BHP for SWAT applications - but now I just think its overly foolhardy.

[Haraise]

I would suggest the 1911 course be 20, or better 40 hours -- mainly as they are a maintenance pig. Unless you have a dedicated armorer team the user needs to be able to detail strip for cleaning and drying...

I used to be big on 1911/BHP for SWAT applications - but now I just think its overly foolhardy.

Is there a reason for 20-40 hours, or are you just trying to discourage people? I was planning on just mandating an armorer course, given that we don't have one (small setup). The one that immediately came to mind would be Hilton Yam's.

[KevinB]

Bit of both.

I love 1911's - but would never carry (or authorize them for) one for LE role. They are these days an enthusiast pistol, as they needs to be maintained. Look at HRT, the FBI have some of the best 1911 guys in the world - and everyone carries Glocks...

The problem I have with 1911's is most new guns are quite tight compared to the 1911A1's of GI usage (the ones that worked all the time) dirty and dusty conditions are their enemy - like what happens in duty holster - or on the ground if you get in a scrap.
- the internals love to rust - so any weather they are exposed to - the guns needs detailed cleaning (and cops are lazy).

Secondly I fail to see what they do that a Glock or M&P cannot do better cheaper with more rounds.

I have a LAV 1911, and have had Novak (Kurt Wickman) P-35's -- but times have evolved, less effort on romancing the SA guns could be focused to more time for other activities.

[Haraise]

Bit of both.

I love 1911's - but would never carry (or authorize them for) one for LE role. They are these days an enthusiast pistol, as they needs to be maintained. Look at HRT, the FBI have some of the best 1911 guys in the world - and everyone carries Glocks...

The problem I have with 1911's is most new guns are quite tight compared to the 1911A1's of GI usage (the ones that worked all the time) dirty and dusty conditions are their enemy - like what happens in duty holster - or on the ground if you get in a scrap.
- the internals love to rust - so any weather they are exposed to - the guns needs detailed cleaning (and cops are lazy).

Secondly I fail to see what they do that a Glock or M&P cannot do better cheaper with more rounds.

I have a LAV 1911, and have had Novak (Kurt Wickman) P-35's -- but times have evolved, less effort on romancing the SA guns could be focused to more time for other activities.

Kept to PM, to avoid getting into this subject of what platform is no good, what platform is good, etc. It's a good thread and I don't want to devolve to a standard gunforum stereotype.