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Thread: Freestyle shooting at 25 yds revisited

  1. #671
    Member
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    Apr 2014
    Location
    Alaska
    Picked up a Glock 43 yesterday. Day 1 at the range today ran about 60 rounds, made a sight adjustment and then fired this group at 25 yards one round after another with a reload. Very pleased with how it shoots for a little gun.
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  2. #672
    Hammertime
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    Apr 2016
    Location
    Desert Southwest
    Wow was I surprised to see this one come come back to me. Personal record from the 25 yard line and I am quite pleased. I felt really relaxed shooting this and perhaps that made all the difference. Gen 4 Glock 17 with grip chopped to accept 19 mags, Defoor sights, minus connector and striker control device.

    The sights require a hold on the bottom of the 8 ring.


  3. #673
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    Feb 2011
    Location
    North Georgia
    That is smokin'!!! Great job.
    "I realized all the mindset talk was useless without action and that with action, all the mindset talk was unnecessary." - Mike Pannone

  4. #674
    Quote Originally Posted by Enel View Post
    Wow was I surprised to see this one come come back to me. Personal record from the 25 yard line and I am quite pleased. I felt really relaxed shooting this and perhaps that made all the difference. Gen 4 Glock 17 with grip chopped to accept 19 mags, Defoor sights, minus connector and striker control device.

    The sights require a hold on the bottom of the 8 ring.

    Defoot sights are exceptionally accurate for this type of shooting. My best 100, 200 and 700 were with Defoor sights.
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    Everything I post I do so as a private individual who is not representing any company or organization.

  5. #675
    Hammertime
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    Apr 2016
    Location
    Desert Southwest
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo_man View Post
    Defoot sights are exceptionally accurate for this type of shooting. My best 100, 200 and 700 were with Defoor sights.
    I like them but often I find two otherwise identical pistols require different holds. I have two G42s and G19s with Defoors and one pistol from each pair requires a center target hold and one requires a bottom of bull hold. It is a little frustrating and I don't know if the issue is Ameriglo or Glock, or maybe my installation?

    G43 requires a dead on split the bull hold. One Gen 3 17 is dead on, and this Gen 4 17 requires a low hold.

    I can't find any information on front sight height options which is sort of driving me away from Defoors

  6. #676
    Member
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    Apr 2014
    Location
    Alaska
    Day 2 with the Glock 43. Duty load at 25 yards.
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  7. #677
    Quote Originally Posted by Enel View Post
    Wow was I surprised to see this one come come back to me. Personal record from the 25 yard line and I am quite pleased. I felt really relaxed shooting this and perhaps that made all the difference. Gen 4 Glock 17 with grip chopped to accept 19 mags, Defoor sights, minus connector and striker control device.
    Cheese and Crackers - that's GOOD shooting!

  8. #678
    Quote Originally Posted by Enel View Post
    I like them but often I find two otherwise identical pistols require different holds. I have two G42s and G19s with Defoors and one pistol from each pair requires a center target hold and one requires a bottom of bull hold. It is a little frustrating and I don't know if the issue is Ameriglo or Glock, or maybe my installation?

    G43 requires a dead on split the bull hold. One Gen 3 17 is dead on, and this Gen 4 17 requires a low hold.

    I can't find any information on front sight height options which is sort of driving me away from Defoors
    They should all be POA/POI cutting the target in half with the front sight post at 25 yards.

    This also has a bit to do with a pistols natural zero and the relationship the barrel, ammo and precision of zero is worked out.

    Every Defoor sight I have had and used they are all exactly the same, the only variation may be the ammo and barrel type.
    VDMSR.com
    Chief Developer for V Development Group
    Everything I post I do so as a private individual who is not representing any company or organization.

  9. #679
    Site Supporter
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    Oct 2015
    Location
    Rochester Hills, MI
    My G19 with Defoors were also "split the target in half" sight picture. Probably an ammo vs barrel thing.


    Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

  10. #680
    Member
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    Jan 2013
    Location
    Hickory NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    Soooo...

    Went out to zero 3 G17s:

    Each with different sights: Ameriglo CAP front w/ Pro-Operator Rear (IIRC), Trijicon HD, and Dawson FO (I can give the exact widths/heights if anybody actually gives a kitten).
    They were just kinda smashed in and roughly centered by my calibrated Mk 1 Mod 2 eye.

    Only had some Blazer brass on hand, wanted to see what effect some different ammo would do with regard to group shift, so I hit Walmart on the way:


    Grabbed the cheapest ammo (Perfecta), and headed to the 7 to quickly see if anything was wildly off.

    I was happy to see that everything was close enough to POA to head back to the 25 yard line (measured with my accurate-enough for .gov work stride).

    I started by shooting at B8 type targets, at a decent pace:

    If you want to watch the video, click here:
    http://s296.photobucket.com/user/Fai...41501.mp4.html
    Don't worry; it's fast, no talking. It is also pretty boring. Sorry.

    Not the pace I would recommend for someone trying to get the utmost precision, but it's the pace I feel comfortable slowing down to while still being "fast".

    Shot with G17, stock except for Dawson sights and a magwell (I wanted to look cool for the video).

    The Dawsons and Ameriglos needed no adjustment for deflection correction.
    The only sights that I beat on were the Trijicon HDs, which were initially too far right, which I conveniently over-corrected:

    Yup, called the wild one on shot 5, I was getting bored by that string.

    I was seeing more lateral deviation (my fault, not the guns), as everything but the CAPs shot high, which I generally do not choose for pistol POI (when I actually have a choice).

    So, I went to 3x5 cards, oriented vertically. Holding on the bottom edge gave a good read on lateral deviation, and I really wasn't too concerned if I wasn't perfect on vertical dispersion since I can't correct that on the range. The below were all shot with the same G17, wearing Dawson FO sights, at 25ish yards, with a bottom-edge hold:

    Ammo was PPU, Fed Red Box, and Perfecta, all 115 gr.
    The PPU group has a shot in the top-right corner that was not part of that string, but rather from the string immediately proceeding it, before I really believed myself that I needed a no-kittening 6:00 hold. There is a double-strike in the center, evidenced by the darker grease-ring. I'll give closer pics if anyone wants to to be a dick. Of course, I could be lying about the top right shot, but it would still be decent enough for the purpose of this. Believe what you want; fight the power.

    The PPU and Perfecta shot like that for just about every group (more on that in a second). I could not get the Blaser to put 5 shots on a card with that G17 within 15 rounds and decided that I would rather retain the ammo for close-range blaster practice than frustrate myself at 25 with it.

    Here are the positions of the sights after the 25 yard work:

    Dawson:


    Ameriglo (Pro Operator rear I think)


    Triji HD:


    The positions shown provide nearly identical POI at 25 with the ammo shown.

    So, while the groups aren't going to make any dedicated bullseye shooter amorous, they are sufficient to meet my needs.
    No heavy right-side correction, but nothing left of center either.

    Here's the kicker (or, if you are astute, here's the validation of your accusations in a sample size of one guy that hasn't done much pistol work in over a year):

    I was able to enlarge my groups and shift them distinctly left (I am a right-handed shooter if I have the option) by using less trigger finger.
    I have observed this in myself for a while, which prompted me to change my trigger finger placement to be more aggressive (almost the first joint).
    There is no shortage of guys that are good with the Grock that do not agree with my trigger finger placement. I'm not saying that they are wrong, simply that their hands/fingers are not mine, and I can pull off decent enough precision with what I am doing at a pace that I believe to be relevant. It is not the trigger finger placement that I would recommend for a 1911, or some other pistols, but for me, with Glocks, it's good.

    After getting happy with the POI of the guns dragged out into the rain (there might have been more pictures if it hadn't been intermittently raining, and had I brought more than 4 target refaces..) I did some moderate speed work on a plate rack at ~24yds and transitioned immediately to a vertical 5x8 card for the remainder of the magazine. Every time I got a sloppy hand-position and landed mid to tip of trigger finger my groups would be biased left on the 5x8. Of course, similar result when I went too fast on trigger even with my preferred finger placement.

    I still need to see how better ammo stacks up against the ammo I used, frankly, I didn't want to shoot up my defensive ammo before I got my annual replacement, and I can't find 124gr S&B anywhere for a polite price.

    Well, that's about it:
    Crappy ammo shot better than I thought it should free-style.
    Minimal right shift on sights (as usual for me), but pretty much no right-correction on Dawsons (I might measure the gaps; but don't hold your breath unless you're a good friend and I missed a recent event).
    Bulk Fed still sucks.
    I get off-side lateral shift with less than aggressive trigger finger placement.

    YMMV, here's a pic of the best dog in the world:
    Can someone more technically inclined tell me how I can display the pics in this post please. Thanks

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