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Thread: Freestyle shooting at 25 yds revisited

  1. #501
    Member BaiHu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocSabo40 View Post
    BaiHu, can you clarify what you mean by, "...is too difficult for me to regain my first hold"? Do you mean your grip on the pistol, or the position you are placing the front sight on the target?
    The latter. For some reason I track way better than I can return to the POA of my previous presentation. Did that clarify it?

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    Fairness leads to extinction much faster than harsh parameters.

  2. #502
    Site Supporter JohnO's Avatar
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    Shot 20 rounds at 25 yards today. The first picture is the target after the first 10 rounds. The second picture is after 20 rounds.





    The three worst 9's could have been prevented. In each case I became visually impatient. My front sight fuzzed out against the black of the bull. I thought the sight picture was good enough. It was good enough to hit black just not good enough to keep it in the 10-ring.

  3. #503
    Member BaiHu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnO View Post
    Shot 20 rounds at 25 yards today. The first picture is the target after the first 10 rounds. The second picture is after 20 rounds.





    The three worst 9's could have been prevented. In each case I became visually impatient. My front sight fuzzed out against the black of the bull. I thought the sight picture was good enough. It was good enough to hit black just not good enough to keep it in the 10-ring.
    Really nice work. What are you shooting?

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    Fairness leads to extinction much faster than harsh parameters.

  4. #504
    Site Supporter JohnO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaiHu View Post
    Really nice work. What are you shooting?

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    Dan Wesson Valor. (5" government model 1911)

    Customized by me as follows:
    Harrison Custom Extreme Duty Short Trigger.
    Ed Brown Arched Mainspring Housing.
    10-8 Performance U-Notch Rear Sight .156 width.
    Wilson Combat Flat Wire Recoil Spring.
    VZ Aliens Standard Thickness Grips.

    200 grain SWC over 6.0 grains of Unique, Tula primers & mixed brass.

  5. #505
    Member BaiHu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnO View Post
    Dan Wesson Valor. (5" government model 1911)

    Customized by me as follows:
    Harrison Custom Extreme Duty Short Trigger.
    Ed Brown Arched Mainspring Housing.
    10-8 Performance U-Notch Rear Sight .156 width.
    Wilson Combat Flat Wire Recoil Spring.
    VZ Aliens Standard Thickness Grips.

    200 grain SWC over 6.0 grains of Unique, Tula primers & mixed brass.
    Nice! I'm running a stock G19 (orange Trijicon HDs) with 115 grain Sellier & Bellot out of the box. I obviously have work to do, but I need to keep some realistic parameters in mind. What do you 25 yd freestyle Glock folk think those parameters are?

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    Fairness leads to extinction much faster than harsh parameters.

  6. #506
    Hokey / Ancient JAD's Avatar
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    The ten ring is 3.36" and the black is 5.54". Glocks are supposed to be 4" guns. I'd be pretty pleased with all in the black and would consider all in the 10 to be shooting up to the pistol. I'll let you know if that ever comes up...
    Ignore Alien Orders

  7. #507
    Site Supporter Matt O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaiHu View Post
    Nice! I'm running a stock G19 (orange Trijicon HDs) with 115 grain Sellier & Bellot out of the box. I obviously have work to do, but I need to keep some realistic parameters in mind. What do you 25 yd freestyle Glock folk think those parameters are?

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    I've had very good luck shooting 95+ with my G17's, especially the Gen 4 guns. Ammo is an important factor, as are sights. With HD's, which aren't the easiest to do precision work with, your POA/POI and sight picture also comes into play. Do the 115's shoot low requiring you to cover more of the bull?

  8. #508
    Member BaiHu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt O View Post
    I've had very good luck shooting 95+ with my G17's, especially the Gen 4 guns. Ammo is an important factor, as are sights. With HD's, which aren't the easiest to do precision work with, your POA/POI and sight picture also comes into play. Do the 115's shoot low requiring you to cover more of the bull?
    Good to hear. I know I need a lot of work on 25 yd freestyle. It's been a good year since I've done it consistently.

    I just drifted my rear sight a bit hoping that'll help with the left of center.

    My hold right know is just a bit over the bull and you can see I've yanked some shots. That's more likely me over the 115.

    Once I can get some consistency in the 90s with my 115 S&B, I'll throw some carry ammo into the 25 yd bucket and see how it improves.

    Make sense?

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    Fairness leads to extinction much faster than harsh parameters.

  9. #509
    Site Supporter Matt O's Avatar
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    If you're top of the front sight is just over the bull, I'd try some 124 gr or 147 gr ammo that should impact higher, thus allowing a sight picture that gives a bit more feedback in terms of POA vis-a-vis the bull.

    Other than that, it's just about keeping at it and the incremental gains will come. I couldn't shoot over 80 with any level of consistency when I first started doing 25 yard bull work after a humbling Northern Red class.

  10. #510
    S.L.O.W. ASH556's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaiHu View Post
    Nice! I'm running a stock G19 (orange Trijicon HDs) with 115 grain Sellier & Bellot out of the box. I obviously have work to do, but I need to keep some realistic parameters in mind. What do you 25 yd freestyle Glock folk think those parameters are?

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    I find that it's reasonably easy to shoot a 90 with most any ammo. Once you begin to push that, though, the ammo makes a big difference. The S&B stuff is one of the better ball loads in my experience along with 115gr Fiocci. 95 and better requires good ammo. Personally I have yet to shoot a 100. However, I can pretty much pull 95+ on-demand. At this level of performance, there are 2 key factors that come into play:

    1) Visual Focus: Your sight alignment has to be spot on. Front sight correctly aligned to the rear (equal height/equal light) and sight alignment on target. Then, hard front-sight focus through the trigger pull. If you let this slip, those 8's and 7's start to show up pretty quickly.

    2) Neutral Grip: I still grip the pistol firmly, but the pressure has to be applied correctly. 25yds magnifies flaws that don't show up 10 yds and closer. This was my first big "AHA" moment in 25 yd shooting and it happened literally in one day. For me, rolling the support hand way forward ala Vogel created more opportunity for torquing the pistol and thus significantly shifting the POI based on varying grip pressures. I found that by rolling my hand slightly rearward, I was able to apply ample clamp pressure with my support hand while keeping varying pressures from disturbing the sights. Diagnose this with a dry gun by taking a sight picture with the gun loose in your hands and then applying your normal pressure. If you have to apply counter-pressure or re-align your sights, something's off with your grip.

    As far as the hardware itself, I find that matters less and less. Sights for instance. HD's are huge, but you can still do good work with them. You just have to figure out what it is you need to see in terms of alignment and then duplicate it every time. I find that with HD's if I hold the tops of the blades on the tops of the black of a B8, I get center hits as long as I do my part. See below of a Gen 3 19 I traded into with HD's already on it. I hate the Gen 3 19 because of the hump (much improved on the Gen 4), so likely my misses here are more due to grip issues, but the sights still allow good hits. I also want to say I agree with you that maintaining a shooting rhythm can play a factor here; especially as it relates to consistent grip and sight picture. However, as you develop the grip and sight focus, you should reach the place where you can duplicate them correctly even if you re-holstered between shots.

    Hope this helps and keep up the good work!

    Food Court Apprentice
    Semper Paratus certified AR15 armorer

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