Freestyle shooting at 25 yds revisited

[okie john]

Glocks heavily tend to shoot left. Warren off centers his notch toward the right to accommodate for the left-bias of Glocks.
Don't worry about the sight body being centered, same as with rifles. The only position that matters is where the sights need to be for you, with your ammo, to hit intended POI.

This. When I was in the range business, people would bring in pistols that weren't shooting center. We'd drift the sights and get them centered, then they'd get bent out of shape because the rear sight wasn't centered any more...

If you're not shooting actual groups, then it's best to leave the sights alone until you are. Your groups certainly could be smaller, but it wouldn't hurt to drift the rear sight a bit to the right to center things up.


Okie John

[okie john]

With a specific problem, such as poor trigger control, anticipation of recoil, etc. you will generally see a bias in your groupings towards a certain direction. A classic example would be a right handed shooter going low left due to recoil anticipation. With vision or focus issues, you see a shotgun pattern. I would look at that target and assume you have an issue with poor vision or poor focus.

Am I all wet on this?

No, you've nailed it. Google "shooter's wheel of misfortune" for more detail.


Okie John

[Failure2Stop]

No, you've nailed it. Google "shooter's wheel of misfortune" for more detail.

Just remember that this:

Is for a right-hander shooting one-handed with a specific type of hand placement on the grip.
Introducing another hand changes a lot of that. The support hand will cover a lot of issues, but brings in it's own deviations that are not captured on the chart.

One-handed shooting is, however, the best way to master trigger control.

ETA: pretty much everything in the chart is indicative of anticipation. I really don't put much stock in the chart.

[Mr_White]

Glocks heavily tend to shoot left. Warren off centers his notch toward the right to accommodate for the left-bias of Glocks.
Don't worry about the sight body being centered, same as with rifles. The only position that matters is where the sights need to be for you, with your ammo, to hit intended POI.

I've heard Glocks shooting left reported many times on pistol-forum. I have always felt like they shoot very straight for me. I seem to remember that last time it came up, there were a lot of people who said 'my Glock shoots left' and some people who said 'my Glock shoots straight.'

Every time I install a set of sights on a Glock, I just eyeball them real hard, get them as centered as I can perceive, and I don't recall ever needing to adjust them otherwise.

Do you (and anyone else who wants to answer) think the Glock actually shoots left mechanically, or do you think that is a product of the shooter or their interaction with the gun? I can appreciate adjusting sights to be zeroed for given shooter, but I am sure there are also a whole bunch of people that just puts a band-aid on. I bet I would think a lot of the people in okie john's post below fall into that category (no criticism meant toward you okie john.)

Just curious to hear a little more.

When I was in the range business, people would bring in pistols that weren't shooting center. We'd drift the sights and get them centered, then they'd get bent out of shape because the rear sight wasn't centered any more...

[Failure2Stop]

I've heard Glocks shooting left reported many times on pistol-forum. I have always felt like they shoot very straight for me. I seem to remember that last time it came up, there were a lot of people who said 'my Glock shoots left' and some people who said 'my Glock shoots straight.'

Every time I install a set of sights on a Glock, I just eyeball them real hard, get them as centered as I can perceive, and I don't recall ever needing to adjust them otherwise.

Do you (and anyone else who wants to answer) think the Glock actually shoots left mechanically, or do you think that is a product of the shooter or their interaction with the gun? I can appreciate adjusting sights to be zeroed for given shooter, but I am sure there are also a whole bunch of people that just puts a band-aid on. I bet I would think a lot of the people in okie john's post below fall into that category (no criticism meant toward you okie john.)

Just curious to hear a little more.

I am sure that it is a culmination of factors. I actually just put 3 sets of different sights on 3 G17s, will take notes during zeroing.
Might swap lowers to see how much difference different triggers make.

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

[jetfire]

I much prefer this chart.

[JHC]

I've heard Glocks shooting left reported many times on pistol-forum. I have always felt like they shoot very straight for me. I seem to remember that last time it came up, there were a lot of people who said 'my Glock shoots left' and some people who said 'my Glock shoots straight.'

Every time I install a set of sights on a Glock, I just eyeball them real hard, get them as centered as I can perceive, and I don't recall ever needing to adjust them otherwise.

Do you (and anyone else who wants to answer) think the Glock actually shoots left mechanically, or do you think that is a product of the shooter or their interaction with the gun? I can appreciate adjusting sights to be zeroed for given shooter, but I am sure there are also a whole bunch of people that just puts a band-aid on. I bet I would think a lot of the people in okie john's post below fall into that category (no criticism meant toward you okie john.)

Just curious to hear a little more.

Of 14 here across 3 shooters here and a few more that have passed through in the last few years, I'd estimate about half of them have their aftermarket sights a skosh to the right to get to zero. Other half centered. None biased to the left.

[CCT125US]

One thing I have noticed in myself and a handful of other shooters, is the tendency to give a slight inward cant to the pistol. If the pistol mechanically impacts say 2 inches high at 25yds, the slightest inward torque of the wrist can have the appearance of shooting level and left at distance. When testing for accuracy, I have resorted to using a small torpedo level to hang the targets. It works best if the top edge of the target is a contrasting color to the backer. With the black bull of the B8, it is easy to get twisted around the axle so to speak and not have a level pistol.

[psalms144.1]

I hesitate to even get in on this after some of the great advice that's already been handed out, but I'll add the following:

Nearly all the "leftitis" I see with Glock shooters (myself included) have a bad habit I call "snatchitis." When we're trying to make the PERFECT long range shot, we want PERFECT sight picture and sight alignment, and we "snatch" the trigger when the sights look perfect. With Glocks, which have a hard break after a soft take up, shooters tend to "stage" the trigger through that spongy take up, then try to snatch through the hard break when everything looks just right.

I found that the Ghost EVO connector is the best cure for this for me - since there's no "wall" to break through. Barring a hardware fix to the problem, however, the key to this is just consciously maintaining focus on the front sight and front sight only, before, during and AFTER the shot (using proper follow through). Trigger press needs to be as steady and continuous as possible, trying to achieve the legendary "surprise break."

I have no idea why these problems tend to be so exacerbated in the Glock, but my experience is that they are. I have seen the same in EVERY other platform, mind you, but never in the epic proportions I see with Glocks. I've literally lost count of the number of Glocks I've seen with rear sights drifted way over to the right...

[GJM]

With every pistol that has an adjustable rear sight, I carefully adjust the sight to get a desired POI at 25 and then ideally confirm with groups at 50 yards. With pistols with "fixed sights" I do the same thing, except it takes a hammer and brass punch to move the rear sight. Fixed sights doesn't generally mean they aren't adjustable. It is my practice to use a Sharpie paint stick to place a witness mark on the rear sight, so that I can quickly tell if it has moved, and I also place a small paint dot on the right side of my pistol to indicate when it is zeroed and confirmed reliable.