TLG has commented that a laser makes shooting groups at 25 yards from the bench, to assess pistol and ammo accuracy, a lot easier.
TLG has commented that a laser makes shooting groups at 25 yards from the bench, to assess pistol and ammo accuracy, a lot easier.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
Man, that's gold right there! I'll bet that has something to do with it for sure. Especially since I'm shooting in a very poorly-lit indoor range. I remember very clearly my front sight focus beginning to blur, especially on the 25 yd shots. So I guess when that happens, the thing to do is break the grip and start over instead of trying to "trust the wobble zone" and just break the shot?Originally Posted by Failure2Stop
I know I'm switching focus. And I know it's going to have to be a battle to break the habit of it, because I do it without thinking.
"Your hands than mine are quicker for a fray.
My legs are longer though, to run away."
--Helena of Athens
This. When I shoot the Cup I have to be really disciplined at 25 and 50 yards to make sure I'm not drifting my focus towards the target.
When I was teaching folks how to shoot bullseye (old 25 yard USMC pistol qual [freeestyle] and division matches [one-handed 25 and 50 yard]) this is the process I would use to teach:
Visualize the shot: See the front sight in crystal clear definition, equal height/equal light, held in the correct position in relation to the blurry black and within the acceptable wobble zone. See the sight clearly lift as the smooth trigger pressure increase causes the hammer to fall.
Slow Fire:
Start with dry fire, focusing on front sight movement to ensure purity of trigger press.
Live Fire/Conduct of the Shot:
Pick up the pistol and achieve proper grip. With the muzzle oriented toward the target, ensure that the trigger finger is in perfect placement on the trigger. Sweep the safety to "fire" (not always applicable, this was for M9s). Touch the finger to the trigger, removing slack, as the sights land on the target. Ensure that you are on the correct target (nothing sucks like shooting a perfect 10X on a neighbor's target). Achieve hard focus on the front sight, clean up sight alignment, and bring the perfect sight alignment into correct sight picture. As long as sight picture and wobble zone is acceptable, smoothly increase pressure on the trigger as the breathing cycle is paused where you like it, ensuring that the front sight is in perfect focus, thinking about nothing other than sights and the trigger finger gradually increasing pressure. When the sights lift, remember exactly what sight picture was when the shot broke. Release the trigger, and return the sights to perfect sight picture.
Engage the safety, lower the pistol (finger should be indexed on the side of the frame), relax the grip. Close the eyes, and take a deep breath with a long exhale (especially important if a poor shot was allowed to break). Open eyes, and look at something green in the distance. Repeat.
If the shot did not feel good, or fell outside normal group, empty the pistol and run a few dry-fire repetitions.
Rapid/Timed Fire:
Prep: Pick up the empty pistol and achieve proper grip. With the muzzle oriented toward the target, ensure that the trigger finger is in perfect placement on the trigger.
Check body position for natural alignment on raise of sights.
Conduct of shoot:
Focus on:
Smooth trigger press, reset on recoil. If you release the trigger fully during reset you might wind up with finger slip (M9), recommend maintaining contact (bullseye specific technique, much like pinning the trigger during slow-fire). Once the shot breaks, get the sights refined AS the trigger is moving.
Constant firm grip, crushing front to rear, NO FINGERTIPS!
Don't try to make it perfect, find your cadence (unless outside the black) and stick to it. Accept the wobble, don't try to make any shot happen simply due to a perfect center hold for a split second, that X you are trying for will wind up being a 7 or worse if you plow the trigger one-handed. The shot cadence IS your trigger control time, you have to get off the trigger fast so you don't waste trigger time.
Stay on the front sight through the string! The only time focus should be on the target is as the sights rise, and then only to ensure that you are shooting the correct target.
No need to breathe, easier to shoot the string with 3/4 full lungs. Sometimes, a slow exhale during trigger control can settle the press and the urge to rush.
This is the beginner to intermediate version.
Director Of Sales
Knight's Armament Company
With a specific problem, such as poor trigger control, anticipation of recoil, etc. you will generally see a bias in your groupings towards a certain direction. A classic example would be a right handed shooter going low left due to recoil anticipation. With vision or focus issues, you see a shotgun pattern. I would look at that target and assume you have an issue with poor vision or poor focus.
Am I all wet on this?
Outrunning my headlights since '81.
I’ve spent a chunk of the last four years chasing accuracy in Glocks. I’ve posted some of what I’ve learned in various places before, not always to a warm reception. This is the first time I’ve posted it all together, so take what you can use and ignore the rest.
To start, Glocks are plenty accurate for duty and practical shooting games. You won’t sweep Camp Perry with one, but a stock Gen3 G17 properly zeroed with good ammo should shoot a 3-4" group at 25 yards and should easily stay on an IPSC target at 100 yards. I hear that Gen4 guns like yours are somewhat more accurate, but I don’t have enough experience to say that definitively. That said, if you want a true match-grade 9mm pistol, get something else.
Shooter Technique
The best way to increase accuracy in Glock pistols is to increase your core strength, upper body strength, and grip strength. This helps you shoot everything better, not just Glocks. So does dry firing.
From there, you have to nail the fundamentals: stance, grip, sight alignment, and trigger control. They’re all vital and they’re all covered in detail in lots of places, so I won’t go into them. But the list is not complete without follow through. Without it, you throw away everything else you’ve done, literally at the last possible split-second. Pat McNamara says that follow-through is checking your work through your sights, and that you should regain a good sight picture as soon as the shot is fired so that you always have one sight picture more than the number of shots you fired. Fire one shot, get two sight pictures. Fire two shots, get three sight pictures, and so on.
Also, do a Google search for “the shooter’s wheel of misfortune”. It can help you diagnose issues with your grip and trigger press.
Range Technique
If you shoot for pure accuracy, then I feel it’s OK to abandon any pretense of realism and steal a few techniques from the bullseye world.
First, it’s called “slow fire” not because you take a long time to fire each shot, but because of the time you take between shots. You’re not laying down suppressive fire, you’re trying to make small groups as a test of specific parts of your ability. Start by building your position, ensuring that your natural point of aim is on the X ring. When you bring the pistol up, you should break the shot in 1-3 seconds. Taking longer will actually open your groups. Fire the shot, then rest the gun on the bench (while maintaining your grip) for 5-6 seconds and let the muscles in your back and arms go slack. Then fire another shot and take another rest. Repeat until you finish the string. I know we’re all manly enough to hold up a two-pound pistol until the cows come home, but again, our goal is small groups, not proof of manliness.
Second, if you need to shoot a ten-shot group, load two five-shot magazines. When you change them, maintain the grip with your strong hand and use your support hand to do all the work. This gives you a mental break from the concentration of precision shooting and helps ease eye strain. Take your time.
Third, it helps to shoot from a dark place at a well-lit target. If you’re indoors, turn off the light in your booth if you can. This helps you see and align the outline of your sights more precisely. Classic bullseye ranges are essentially sheds with ample shade for the firing line while the targets stand in bright sunshine. This helps reduce eye strain and helps you shoot smaller groups. No, it’s not super-realistic, but again, we’re abandoning certain aspects of realism in search of accuracy so we can become better shooters.
Ammo
I tested nearly 20 different factory loads over a couple of years, and I learned that a load that groups well in one Glock may not group well in another. Test ammo by shooting several ten-shot groups with each load at 25 yards (50 yards is better), and keep notes. You may find a load that cuts your groups in half.
Duty-grade JHP ammo tends to be more accurate than FMJ practice ammo, but that’s a low bar. Most FMJ ammo is crap, especially bulk reloads. Good FMJ ammo can be nearly as accurate as good JHP ammo in some pistols, but a lot of it will barely hold a 10” group at 25 yards. Find an FMJ load that your pistol shoots well—it may not be the most expensive one—and buy several cases of it at a time.
Trigger
Glocks are harder to shoot as well as some other pistols because the trigger pull is so long and heavy. Testing different combinations of springs and connectors definitely pays off. I like the OEM minus (-) connector with a stock trigger spring. Results vary, but definitely look into it.
The 25-cent trigger job is also a big help, as it smooths and lightens the trigger pull no matter what connector and spring you prefer. If you have an issued Glock and you can’t alter it, you can get the same effect by shooting or dry-firing it several thousand cycles. The 25-cent trigger job feels about the same as a Glock that’s been fired 5-6,000 times.
It has become fashionable to run pistols dirty and dry, but I find that a clean, well lubricated pistol is much easier to shoot well. I clean and lube my Glocks, especially the fire control parts, about every thousand rounds. You have enough problems with the Glock trigger before you start, so why complicate life by fighting months of accumulated fouling, dust, dirt, belly-button lint, etc., on every trigger press? Also, Glocks are so easy to detail strip that there’s no reason not to have a clean, properly lubricated pistol pretty much all the time.
Sights & Zero
Sights matter a LOT and the best choice for each of us deserves its own thread. (For a number of reasons, I prefer adjustable sights on a carry gun, the idea of which makes some people foam at the mouth.) What matters at least as much as the sights themselves but is almost completely overlooked is zero. Based on several years working on indoor ranges, I'd say that the vast majority of shooters have no idea what a zero is. Most of the rest assume that their pistols are zeroed from the factory, or that centering their sights in the dovetail is adequate. This is not the case.
Getting windage sorted out is pretty simple: just shoot 10- or 20-shot groups and move the rear sight until you get the same number of hits left of the centerline as you have right of it. In the targets you show in your posts, most of the shots are left of center. This could be a shooter issue, but you might also be zeroed improperly.
Then there’s elevation. As your groups shrink, you become able to make hits farther and farther away, and your zero for elevation starts to matter. No firearm comes from the factory with a good zero, but Glocks are especially bad in this respect—it can take a surprising amount of screwing around to properly zero them for elevation. I like a 25-yard zero because I can stay in the A-zone out to 50 without much change in POA, and I can stay on an IPSC target out to 100 or so by holding for the chin.
Take the time you need to get a solid zero with good ammo and you’ll be way ahead. Again, all of this is a highly personal matter, so test sights on your own, work with some different zeros, and find what works best for you.
Targets
Shooting small groups on visually cluttered targets is harder than on simple targets. I find that targets meant for zeroing rifle scopes are almost useless for iron-sighted handguns. Again, it helps to take a lesson from bullseye shooters. They prefer a single black bullseye on a large (20”x20” or so) sheet of plain buff-colored paper. (The targets that you showed in your original post are actually repair centers for those full-sized targets.) If the buff-colored part of the paper appears wider than the rest of your sight picture, then you’ll only have your sights and the bull in view as you shoot, which makes shooting small groups easier. Also, the buff background strains your eyes less than a black target on a white background.
Again, these tips will help you shoot smaller groups under very controlled circumstances. From there, you can analyze and hone individual aspects of your skill set so you can shoot smaller groups in the real world. I’ve found that each of these things will help to shrink your groups a little. None is a magic fix by itself, but when you add them all together, the cumulative improvement can be remarkable.
Let me know if you have questions.
Okie John
That's a fantastic post. Thank's for taking the time to compile it.
If not me, then who?
Wow, great posts and info by F2S and John. Thanks so much for taking the time to post all of that! I have read it, but will continue to digest it.
The sight zero thing is something that bothers me. I was at a Vickers pistol class Friday and found similarly that the groups even if in the bull, tended to the left side of things. I know that my rear sight is perfectly-centered in the dovetail because I measured it with calipers and fine-tuned it when I installed it, but even Vickers said that may not be where it needs to be. Now, if it's a grip or trigger control issue, I don't want to be compensating by drifting the sight in the dovetail, but man, it sure would make me happier to see my rounds go in the center of the bull.
Glocks heavily tend to shoot left. Warren off centers his notch toward the right to accommodate for the left-bias of Glocks.
Don't worry about the sight body being centered, same as with rifles. The only position that matters is where the sights need to be for you, with your ammo, to hit intended POI.
Director Of Sales
Knight's Armament Company
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