Nice shooting!
Nice shooting!
Ash, that's a great group!
Did your G17 always shoot POA/POI with regards to windage? Mine is printing 2-3" left and I'm not sure if it's my grip or if I should drift my rear sight. When shooting my P226 and M&P, I'm getting good POA/POI hits.
If not me, then who?
That's a pretty significant difference from the 25 yd. target in the first post. Nice progress.Originally Posted by ASH556
ETA: What advice/different technique do you think has helped you the most in this endeavor?
Last edited by JWinTN; 08-04-2014 at 08:05 AM.
The post on ammo choice got me wondering about realistic expectations. What is a reasonable metric to go by given a service pistol and practice ammo? I just assumed that a good shooter should be able to use the same combo as I am and with some consistency get at least a 3" group, or at least something closer to a group compared to my patterns. Is that an unreasonable objective, or have the gun magazines been lying to me this whole time? At what point will the equipment itself come into play?
I'm afraid I'm going to have to back off before I'm out buying bullseye guns and blinders for my glasses and calling every hand-loaded round "my precious."
Thanks for the encouragement guys! It's nice to see the hard work start to pay off. All 10 rounds in the black is still my unicorn right now. Somehow I always manage to drop one or two...just gotta keep at it. Then maybe I'll start worrying about the 10 and "X" rings!
Hoss - my rear sight is slightly right of center on the slide. This, for me, achieves a true and correct POA=POI "zero." Up until about 3 weeks ago, I had been fighting drifting my rear sight and was determined to fix my left POI with grip, trigger, etc. It just wasn't happening and my groups were tight enough and consistent enough that I finally decided to listen to some other folks (our own F2S included) and just zero the pistol by drifting the sight a bit to the right. I've been very happy since doing so.
JWinTn - I feel the biggest issue I was having was paying attention to sight alignment, sight/target relationship, and overall visual focus. My trigger control has been at a decent level for awhile, but what was keeping me from consistent good performance was a lack of visual focus. My eyes would not see a clear front sight image and I'd fire the shot anyway. You just cannot do that if you expect to consistently hit where you want. I have made minor tweaks to my grip and trigger finger placement, but the results from those were minor. I don't think it's worth delving into those details because they will vary with everyone's anatomy, but the sight picture thing is a constant regardless of the shooter.
Probably the next biggest improvement I could make would actually be to change out my sights. Now that I recognize the importance of a good sight picture and how to see it, I've realized how inherently-handicapped my choice is. The front sight is too wide to really do a lot of precise shooting. I also find that I can shoot a 3-dot sight much more consistently than my current setup. The three dots are a good quick reference to me, especially for vertical alignment. Whereas, shooting the bright front and black rear demands that I focus pretty hard on vertical alignment. The tradeoff is speed of acquisition and for now, I think I'll take that tradeoff. The data I have to back up this position is actually pretty funny (I think). I work Saturdays at a local shop/indoor range and invariably, there are 2-4 shooters every Saturday asking if we can adjust the sights on their pistol. I'll ask if they mind my confirming the pistol's zero before moving the sights and 99% of the time it ends with all the shots in the bullseye, the customer admitting they need more practice, my offering a few helpful hints, and them leaving with more confidence in their weapon. One such recent case was with a Smith & Wesson 40V Sigma. These pistols have HORRIBLE triggers and this one had the stock 3-dot sights. The customer told me he was shooting it at 25yds so I took him at his word (it later came out that he had been shooting at 25 feet) and printed 5 shots neatly inside a 3inch group offhand at 25yds. I was flabbergasted that I could pick up a pistol I'd never shot before with a horrible trigger and do that, while struggling to do the same with my very familiar Glock. After a couple similar instances and some more thought, I believe it's the 3-dot sights that make the difference for me. Like I said, though, I find them to be distracting and much slower when trying to shoot for speed, so I'm not willing to make that tradeoff on my Glock.
Good to know. Mine is slightly off center to the left (~0.008") so I'd need to move it ~0.016" or so right to correct for POA/POI. There was an article posted on Modern Service Weapon blog by Jerry Jones not too long ago about Glock grip pressure and impacting left, so I'm not entirely sure I need to move the sights. I'm going to play around with some various grip techniques before drifting.
As for front sight, I hear you. I have the CAP front and rear and I initially thought the CAP sight was too wide until I shot a 4" groupWhile there isn't as much light on either side of it, I'm not sure if it's worth swapping it out for the TCAP (which has a similar sight picture to Heinie Straight 8's that I have on my M&P). Personally I can't stand 3-dot sights, but more to the point I don't even look at the dots/bars/markings when shooting for groups. I base my sight picture/alignment from the physical outline of the front/rear - that might be worth looking into.
If not me, then who?
Something of a timely post from Kyle Defoor, at least in regard to a metric to go by:
http://kyledefoor.tumblr.com/post/93...le-10-rds-in-1
Nice work!Managed this one today. Stock Gen 4 Glock 17, .140 CAP front, black serrated rear. What's most exciting to me about this is with this rear sight I get POA=POI hold at 25 yds vs the 6'oclock with the CAP rear. Max spread = 4.5"
Some day, when I figure out how to use open 2-dot sights with less-than-youthful vision....
"You're only young once, but you can be immature forever" Ogden Nash
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Pogo
I am not convinced that a bone stock glock is capable of shooting 100/100 on a b8 at 25. 95/100 seems more reasonable to expect. I think DocGKR has posted stock barrel/kkm comparisons before and come to the conclusion that the kkm could give you the last couple points.
I've shot plenty of 97s and 98s freestyle.
I've seen my share of 100s from better shooters with good ammo.
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