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Thread: Freestyle shooting at 25 yds revisited

  1. #11
    I've been focusing on improving my 25 yard accuracy the past couple of weeks. I shoot at both NRA B8 targets and my 6" steel spinner. I started working on accuracy while shooting at the 6" spinner. Instant gratification when I do my part and once I reliably work up to hitting it every shot out of 10 rounds, I'll move to working accuracy on a B8 more. This drill has helped me slow WAY down while shooting and concentrate on the fundamentals a lot more.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxyTFzgWjhk

  2. #12
    Needs More Dryfire ASH556's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the inout so far. I'm hearing trigger control as the main issue, hence the ball and dummy stuff, right? What is the difference between ball and dummy and dry fire? I mean, I understand that ball and dummy involves hiding dummy rounds in magazines mixed with live to detect flinching and snatching. I guess I'm wondering why the answer wasn't "dry fire to work on trigger control"?

  3. #13
    Last time I posted a video shooting at 25 yards, Doc pointed out that I (as well as a few others that posted videos) are shooting way too fast to make decent groups. I still have that problem, but I like to shoot a 5 or 10 shot continuous group at the start or end of a range trip.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by ASH556 View Post
    Thanks for all the inout so far. I'm hearing trigger control as the main issue, hence the ball and dummy stuff, right? What is the difference between ball and dummy and dry fire? I mean, I understand that ball and dummy involves hiding dummy rounds in magazines mixed with live to detect flinching and snatching. I guess I'm wondering why the answer wasn't "dry fire to work on trigger control"?
    Quote Originally Posted by MSparks909 View Post
    I've been focusing on improving my 25 yard accuracy the past couple of weeks. I shoot at both NRA B8 targets and my 6" steel spinner. I started working on accuracy while shooting at the 6" spinner. Instant gratification when I do my part and once I reliably work up to hitting it every shot out of 10 rounds, I'll move to working accuracy on a B8 more. This drill has helped me slow WAY down while shooting and concentrate on the fundamentals a lot more.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxyTFzgWjhk
    If you look at the video link of the Sig Academy linked above, you will see essentially the Rogers ball and dummy drill, but without using dummy rounds.

    Other factors come into play at 25 yards. What is the inherent accuracy of your pistol there, what is the accuracy of your chosen ammo, and what is the accuracy of your pistol/ammo combination at 25 yards.

    Assuming I felt my pistol and ammo is accurate at 25 yards, there is no reason you can't shoot one inch squares at 7 yards, 2 inch dots at 10 yards, a 3x5 at 15 yards, and continuing working your way out as you build experience at the closer distances. If you can't shoot a one inch square at 7 yards and a two inch dot at 10 yards, I suspect you will have difficulty at 25.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASH556 View Post
    Thanks for all the inout so far. I'm hearing trigger control as the main issue, hence the ball and dummy stuff, right? What is the difference between ball and dummy and dry fire? I mean, I understand that ball and dummy involves hiding dummy rounds in magazines mixed with live to detect flinching and snatching. I guess I'm wondering why the answer wasn't "dry fire to work on trigger control"?
    I think the answer is both because there are differences between live fire and dry fire. Live fire with ball and dummy will reveal issues we can miss or that don't reveal themselves in Dryfire.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Skintop911 View Post
    Did he elaborate as to why?
    Random ball and dummy just shows that you flinch (flinch and other bad stuff), but doesn't cause you to stop flinching. Ball, dummy, ball, dummy allows you to press the trigger without fear of overpressure every other shot, and in Bill's experience brings results faster.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  7. #17
    Member hossb7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shenaniguns View Post
    Last time I posted a video shooting at 25 yards, Doc pointed out that I (as well as a few others that posted videos) are shooting way too fast to make decent groups. I still have that problem, but I like to shoot a 5 or 10 shot continuous group at the start or end of a range trip.
    I agree with this. When I slow down to what seems to be slower than necessary when shooting for groups I post my best accuracy. Deliberately take time between each shot to breathe and relax your hands, arms and eyes.

    Either that or just go back another day, and try again.
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  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by hossb7 View Post
    I agree with this. When I slow down to what seems to be slower than necessary when shooting for groups I post my best accuracy. Deliberately take time between each shot to breathe and relax your hands, arms and eyes.

    Either that or just go back another day, and try again.
    I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, I get that proper bullseye is not rapid fire. On the other hand, if it takes me 20 or 30 seconds to break a shot with a service pistol, it doesn't feel like a skill that I would be able to use gaming or real world. I aim (sorry) for a happy medium of shooting at a slow enough pace to make good hits but at a speed that it is likely to be useful.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, I get that proper bullseye is not rapid fire. On the other hand, if it takes me 20 or 30 seconds to break a shot with a service pistol, it doesn't feel like a skill that I would be able to use gaming or real world. I aim (sorry) for a happy medium of shooting at a slow enough pace to make good hits but at a speed that it is likely to be useful.
    This is what I prefer but I'll rush a shot (in this case two) when I know I should not, like when my vision starts to blur and I should probably take a breath and re acquire a good sight picture. My target above is probably 2-3 seconds per shot.

  10. #20
    Site Supporter taadski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASH556 View Post
    Thanks for all the inout so far. I'm hearing trigger control as the main issue, hence the ball and dummy stuff, right? What is the difference between ball and dummy and dry fire? I mean, I understand that ball and dummy involves hiding dummy rounds in magazines mixed with live to detect flinching and snatching. I guess I'm wondering why the answer wasn't "dry fire to work on trigger control"?
    I think the issue is that during dry fire the brain is smart enough to know the gun is unloaded. So while you very well may be making significant strives with the mechanics of pressing the trigger well, you won't be addressing the issues associated with the blinking/flinching/pre-ignition push type problems. While both obviously affect the ability to be accurate, they are separate issues.

    Addressing the latter is an important next step for the obvious accuracy reasons, but also because without doing so, you won't be able to move forward in you ability to process the visual info that's there (i.e.- shot calling).


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