I use the mag out to pocket first and then reload, I'm less likely to fumble the reload and it's faster for me.
I use the mag out to pocket first and then reload, I'm less likely to fumble the reload and it's faster for me.
Last edited by Amp; 01-15-2024 at 12:17 PM.
ETA: I only watched about half the video. I agree with AMP, if I'm pocket carrying the extra mag, the way to do it is with the mag in hand.
I've always felt that one of the things you need to look at is the actual context in which you are going to be using the technique. I think he is thinking too much about the IDPA competition application rather than the real-world/tactical application.
To me the Tac/Retention Reload has always been one aspect of the reload when you want to, not when you got to training mindset. So first you need to address the circumstances that would exist before using a tac reload versus a speed reload (mags cross in the air with the ejected mag hitting the ground). I would think that first you would want to be behind cover or concealment and second that there would be a lull in the action giving you enough time to execute a tac reload.
Additionally, he demoed executing the tac load on the move. I can see doing that in the assault when you aren't moving to cover, but in the case of moving to cover I think you want to evaluate what is important NOW reloading or getting to cover. If possible I would reload before I moved or after I moved. Don't misunderstand me to say that doing it on the move is not a skill you should practice, I'm simply advocating thinking about the tactics you use. As a CCW or HD user, how often should/would you been moving forward, into a gunfight? Time to reload before you do so?
Other than on a competition field I think the one consideration he skips is how long the pistol is without a magazine, in other words with only the chambered round to be fired. For real world use, I would default to whichever method offered me the least time with only one round to defend myself rather than solely basing the decision on elapsed time.
Additionally, coming from a police training background, I don't know of anyone who advocates returning a partially loaded mag to a mag pouch. Partially loaded mags go in the rear pocket. Many LEO's have enough stuff on their belts that getting at the front pocket of their trousers is difficult. And, if you need to get the partial mag while kneeling, prone, or on the move, it's a hell of a lot easier to get it out of a rear pocket.
The video proved to me which technique I would use in IDPA competition, not necessarily, which I would use in real world.
Last edited by DDTSGM; 01-15-2024 at 03:10 PM.
Adding nothing to the conversation since 2015....
For several years, performing a tactical reload with a 9mm 226 was part of my former agency's daylight and low light qualification courses. It was eliminated by the time I became an instructor. I occasionally practiced the classic reload myself and might have mentioned it in training, but neither I nor the program put particular emphasis on it.
If I were to do it over again, I might have put more emphasis on the technique (though not at the expense of the speed reload when remaining rounds are left in the dropped magazine) and certainly not at the expense of the slidelock reload. In retrospect, both for myself and the program, I'd generally go with the magazine to pocket, then draw the spare. I also agree that the rear pocket is the preferred option for stowing the partial mag (absent a dump pouch). As posited, the front pocket may be inaccessible. Cargo pockets may be accessible, but the magazine may be swimming deep in the pocket, lost amongst whatever gear may be carried there.
I agree that a tac reload on the move is probably a bridge too far for pretty much anyone but the reincarnation of Jelly Bryce. One should reload before or after moving. While being able to reload on the movie might be a valuable skill, there are probably other skills one would be better off learning and practicing. If you need to reload on the move, it is probably better to perform a speed or slidelock reload.
I will remark that partial magazines are better in magazine carriers than pockets or dump pouches. That should probably be done after the weapon is fully loaded. You should bump up your magazines so a full one is in the pouch you reach for first and the partial magazine is in the pouch you reach for last. This is situational and best performed while eight of your best friends are up and loaded while you screw around with your magazines.
Unfortunately, some of the current tac reload thinking comes from days of yore when the 1911 and one or two single stack magazines were standard. Other thinking comes from the GWOT. Mad respect for veterans of both environs, but tac reload training (and everything else) needs to be based on what we and our students are going and carrying. Tac reload training and practice should probably differ if you a private citizen with a SIG 365 and one spare or if you're a beat officer with a Glock 17 and three spare magazines on your belt.
For historical reference, I'm old enough to have rolled out with a revolver and two speedloaders. There are techniques to tac reload a wheel gun from belt loops or a speed strip, but I assumed I'd never pull that off at the moment of truth. I figured I'd drop any live rounds and use a speedloader rather than try a tac reload.
Autos
A lot of this is hand / gun / magazine size dependent.
I have strong bony XL hands.
What has served me well since 1990 has been to : grab the fresh mag with thumb and first 2 fingers , bring it toward the pistol, eject mag in gun and receive it between third and little fingers gripping it hard. Insert fresh mag and stow partial in pocket etc…
This has worked well with GL21, 30, 17, 19, HK45, HK P30, HK USP 45, 9 mm. It has worked with plus 2-5 mags. Currently doing this with Solum Tool +3 on a HK USP 45 with no issues.
I use thumb and first two fingers on the fresh msg because it is my priority over the partial mag in the gun.
Many seem to do the reverse. YMMV.
I have done this in various conditions: rain , dark, very light gloves.
I was pretty heavily schooled in the traditional version of the tac reload having started at a 1911 centric office. As a long-time 1911 carrier, shooter it became natural.
As a lefty, I never could do the traditional version with my M4/AR. That started me on used mag out, stow it, new mag in.
When I switched to a double stack 9mm, it was used mag out, stow it, new mag in - because of hand size and total time.
I will discuss and demo both.
At IDPA, "stowed" for the partial magazine has become "stuffed in the waistband" because it is a bit quicker than a pocket and time is everything.
Code Name: JET STREAM
Having not shot idpa in at least a decade, I find that interesting.Originally Posted by Jim Watson
Was that previously prohibited?
I recall one couple we used to see at Florida State matches that had put a wire in their vest pocket and would simply dump the partial into the pocket while retrieving the fresh mag. I believe that was eventually prohibited.
Does the above offend? If you have paid to be here, you can click here to put it in context.
You can't modify a cover garment pocket to make it easier to stow a magazine. Under the current rules you have to stow the mag at waist level, so a pocket, mag pouch or stuffed in the waistband is good.
What kind of crowd is that guy preaching to? Right from the jump I didn't like his presentation. He literally made it look like he is plusing up the gun when he shouldn't. Then returning a partially used magazine to a belt pouch is both inefficient and problematic. I realize he was demonstrating a technique but perhaps some context about when and why to perform a tactical reload for the neophyte.
What rarely gets attention when discussing this topic is the simple fact that the "Tactical" reload, or reload with retention, is NOT done unless there is a definitive "lull" in the action. If you're still in a fight, dump the partial, put in a full, and get back in the fight.
If you have the time/cover to do a "tactical" reload, I prefer the "modern" technique of taking the partial to the pocket/pouch then reloading from the belt, just because of the reduced chance of mag fumbling. The "classic" technique is very dependent on size of the mag, shooter's hand size, and a bunch of other factors that MIGHT make it a bad option.
Of course, I'm just old fat broke-ass retired guy without a YouTube channel, so, my opinion is worth precisely what you paid for it.
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