Kel-Tec RFB

[Wheeler]

I've been giving serious consideration to purchasing one of these. I like the idea of a .308 bullpup, lefty friendly carbine. I had an opportunity to handle one today at a gunstore and was surprised at my seeming inability to get what felt like a solid mount. This was an out-of-the-box gun with no BUIS or optics.

I have yet to find a review with anything negative other than they get hot at the cheek-weld and require the use of some sort of pad.

My questions are:

1. Has anyone here had the opportunity to shoot one?

2. If so, positive/negative feedback?

3. Are they worth the money? The local shop had the one I groped at $1450 and I've seen them in the $1200 range on the internet, meaning I'll be spending about $1300 to have one ordered with transfer fees & shipping.

4. Accuracy? Are they "battle accurate"? Which to me means at least 2MOA.

5. It's a Kel-Tec, it's a new design with a radically different ejection process, I'm looking for something more than a post on the Kel-Tec forum stating that "I've put 150 flawless rounds through mine in the 6 months that I've had it."

6. I'll probably be giving up my Bushmaster in order to come up with enough scratch to get one. I realize .308 in any form is more costly than 5.56. Am I gaining anything besides a larger caliber, heavier ammo loadout, and a bigger hole in the target? Is .308 more effective out of a 16" barrel than 5.56?

Thanks for any and all assistance.

Wheeler

[SecondsCount]

Due to zero experience with the RFB, I can't help you with personal knowledge but I will address #6.

I have a 308 based AR and never shoot at anything closer than 200 yards. It is bigger, heavier, and costs more to shoot, and I have not even shot it in the last 18 months. Where I find it to shine is on windy days, the 308 doesn't seem to even care about wind compared to the 5.56.

As far as lethality, unless you are concerned about what is going to happen beyond 300 yards, they both will do the job if you do yours.

[WDW]

I've been giving serious consideration to purchasing one of these. I like the idea of a .308 bullpup, lefty friendly carbine. I had an opportunity to handle one today at a gunstore and was surprised at my seeming inability to get what felt like a solid mount. This was an out-of-the-box gun with no BUIS or optics.

I have yet to find a review with anything negative other than they get hot at the cheek-weld and require the use of some sort of pad.

My questions are:

1. Has anyone here had the opportunity to shoot one?

2. If so, positive/negative feedback?

3. Are they worth the money? The local shop had the one I groped at $1450 and I've seen them in the $1200 range on the internet, meaning I'll be spending about $1300 to have one ordered with transfer fees & shipping.

4. Accuracy? Are they "battle accurate"? Which to me means at least 2MOA.

5. It's a Kel-Tec, it's a new design with a radically different ejection process, I'm looking for something more than a post on the Kel-Tec forum stating that "I've put 150 flawless rounds through mine in the 6 months that I've had it."

6. I'll probably be giving up my Bushmaster in order to come up with enough scratch to get one. I realize .308 in any form is more costly than 5.56. Am I gaining anything besides a larger caliber, heavier ammo loadout, and a bigger hole in the target? Is .308 more effective out of a 16" barrel than 5.56?

Thanks for any and all assistance.

Wheeler

1. No, like all of Kel-Tec's products, they don't actually exist except on the internet. JK

2. Kel-Tec has a track record of innovative fireams displaying exceedingly inferior quality over the long-term.

3. You could get a TON of ammo to run your AR for $1,300. Or, you could sell the Bushmaster AR, and with that $$$ + the $1,300, you could get a top notch AR w/optic (S&W, DD, LM&T, LWRC...). A $1,300 Kel-Tec is never a good idea. You need to think about what you are wanting. The Kel-Tec looks cool, and is something new, but it is completely unproven, probably for a reason. I'm not a basher. I base my rants on facts and experience.

4. I won't have a rifle that can't shoot at least 1MOA. The Kel-Tec appears to have a very short sight radius and plastic rails which makes for an unstable mount for combat optics. You also stated you couldn't obtain a proper cheek weld without some "pad". You wanna pay $1,300 for a gun that off the shelf requires a cheapo cheek pad to shoot?

5. You've answered #5 yourself, Kel-Tec, New, Ejection, are never words that should describe a potential SD carbine.

6. Unless someone else is paying, 5.56 is all you need. You would be sacrificing parts availability and operator level maintenance with this gun. You would be using FAL mags of varying quality. This whole thing just ain't a good idea. Stick with a DI AR. It has a 50 year track record and all of the features you are seeking in this Kel-Tec. If you must have .308, get an AR-10 (SR-25, LWRC REPR, or what's affordable, an Armalite) Good Luck.

[LittleLebowski]

Why would you go to an unproven, costly design that you can't even get a good cheekweld on?

Have you taken a carbine class yet?

[Kyle Reese]

I'd pass on it, Wheeler.

For that kind of coin you can get a top shelf AR (Noveske, BCM, Colt, DD). Heck, Palmetto State Armory is selling Colt 6920s for $1049 right now.

[Wheeler]

Why would you go to an unproven, costly design that you can't even get a good cheekweld on?

Have you taken a carbine class yet?

Let me clarify a little on the cheekweld, I stated that badly I think. Due to my complete unfamiliarity with bullpups, is the cheekweld different? I felt that the gun was sitting about 3" too low whenever I tried for a shoulder mount. Is that common to all bullpups?

Yes, I've taken a carbine class. SDH FWIW. I used the aforementioned Bushmaster.

Thanks for all the feedback guys. I've been in the process of consolidating calibers for the past little bit. Mostly that has been pistol calibers but, I've started to turn my attention to the long guns. I was thinking about a .308 as an intermidiate caliber for SD, hunting etc. to replace my .30/06 and AR. I've even looked at and talked to several people that own FAL's.

I'm still waiting for someone to say "I've got an RFB, I've put 2k rounds through it, this is what I found out..." Until then, I had no intention of buying one.

[Odin Bravo One]

With the number of .308 guns to choose from these days, why a bullpup?

I've had a few guns go "boom" in my hands, mostly due to bad ammo, or an extremely harsh firing schedule. Regardless of the reason the gun exploded, at no point in time did I ever wish that my face was sitting right on top of the chamber and action at the time of detonation. Certainly those instances are rare. But it only takes once...............

[Wheeler]

With the number of .308 guns to choose from these days, why a bullpup?

I've had a few guns go "boom" in my hands, mostly due to bad ammo, or an extremely harsh firing schedule. Regardless of the reason the gun exploded, at no point in time did I ever wish that my face was sitting right on top of the chamber and action at the time of detonation. Certainly those instances are rare. But it only takes once...............

The RFB has a dual layer of steel over the receiver and chamber to force an kaboom through the magwell. Regardless, that is a good point. I was thinking of a bullpup mainly to replace my AR as a CQ carbine plus be able to use the .308 for hunting. I did a little more research an have discovered the RFB is specifically designed for 7.62x51 not .308. It seems that any of the reported failures have stemmed from use of commercial .308. That pretty much rules out hunting ammo.

Keep it coming guys, this is getting less and less atractive the more feedback I get.

I'll have to give serious consideration to buying ya'll a beer for helping me save all this money.

[Mitchell, Esq.]

If I had $1,300 for a budget, I'd get an AK, mags, ammo, a rifle class, lodging and some good booze for post-class.

If I already have a rifle, I'd get either:

A class on high performance driving & car prep costs;
A 2 day tactical medical class;
A pistol or rifle class & all costs associated with it;
A shotgun class & all associated costs;
Long Range Rifle class & costs;
A spare rifle;
Body armor (which you can get used online, or new);
A full, SHTF capible, trauma kit;
.22lr upper/bolt & mags;
An ACOG/Eo-Tech;
A very high class call-girl;
A complete spare part kit of the best quality I could afford;
A suppressor (& NFA tax stamp);
Something bolt action in .270, 30.06 or .300WIN MAG with serious glass on it;

The idea of buying a Keltec for more than the cost of a mid-to-upper grade AR does not appeal to me.

Their is a lot you can do with $1,300 that will make you get a nod of "You made some good choices and are on the way to being a cut above the rest of the goofuses I see...you are getting close to being considered Medium-Speed, Reduced Drag..." from HSLD guys instead of paying for a rifle you don't need.

[Odin Bravo One]

[QUOTE=Wheeler;19740]The RFB has a dual layer of steel over the receiver and chamber to force an kaboom through the magwell. QUOTE]

Or gives twice as much frag to go into your face.............Yeah, just not seeing the benefits to this particular rifle. But hey.......I could be wrong. It has been known to happen, and more than just occasionally.