Less then lethal?

[USAF422]

Darn public school education

[Josh Runkle]

No worries I actually thought the thread was about when to switch to lethality.

Here's a good question: folding knife... Do you guys go major muscle groups (ie: Mike Janich, less lethal), or do you go major blood loss leading to shock, and probably lethal?

I ask not in the context of knife techniques, but more in the context of lethal vs less lethal.

[Mr_White]

No worries I actually thought the thread was about when to switch to lethality.

Here's a good question: folding knife... Do you guys go major muscle groups (ie: Mike Janich, less lethal), or do you go major blood loss leading to shock, and probably lethal?

I ask not in the context of knife techniques, but more in the context of lethal vs less lethal.

I think the knife is inherently an instrument of deadly force, particularly under the law. I don't think knives are a credible tool for anything other than deadly force, despite subtleties of use asserted by some practitioners.

[TR675]

I think the knife is inherently an instrument of deadly force, particularly under the law.

Yes. Knives are deadly weapons, period.

[Mr_White]

Do you guys go major muscle groups (ie: Mike Janich, less lethal), or do you go major blood loss leading to shock, and probably lethal?

I ask not in the context of knife techniques, but more in the context of lethal vs less lethal.

I realize am totally answering your question out of order here.

Having said that I don't think a knife can credibly be used with other than inherently deadly force, I do not put a lot of stock in any type of 'biomechanical cutting' and would rely on the same mechanisms to cause cessation of threat that we rely on with pistol bullets (blood loss leading to unconsciousness, and if lucky, a psychological stop before that point.)

[TGS]

No worries I actually thought the thread was about when to switch to lethality.

Here's a good question: folding knife... Do you guys go major muscle groups (ie: Mike Janich, less lethal), or do you go major blood loss leading to shock, and probably lethal?

I ask not in the context of knife techniques, but more in the context of lethal vs less lethal.

If I'm to the point of pushing a blade through someone's skin, I'm way beyond lethal vs less lethal. That's squarely in the zone of lethal, and doing anything I can to survive...chewing on their face, curb-side smiley, whatever works.

I'll also likely be stabbing anything I can. I've taken a token amount of FMA from a few different instructors in the past, but I'm definitely not an Eskrimador.

[DocGKR]

Are we talking "Less Lethal" or "Less Than Lethal"?

Two related, but very different things.

[SpyderMan2k4]

Disclaimer: I do not currently carry pepper spray, but I want to start and I've been exploring options to do so. That being said...

There are a lot of instances where it can be great. One example would be a few years ago me and a friend met up with another guy. Somene that knew the guy we were meeting came over. He was drunk and didn't like what my friend said and the dude spit in his face and wanted to fight us. We kept calm and nothing came of it. Well what if this guy waited for us outside? Even if there were three of us and he wanted to fight? I don't feel like getting in a fist fight, even if it is 3 v 1. That's a great time for pepper spray. There's a lot of great application for it.

Even if things COULD be justified using lethal force, you may be able to solve it with non lethal and save yourself a lot of money and paperwork.

As far as knives, your targeted area doesn't determine if you are using lethal force. I'm not gonna try to cut the guy's finger because he won't die from that so that makes it less lethal. A knife should only be used if a gun could also justifiably be used. As for targeting with a knife, if I am unattached, I'm head hunting with knife jabs.

[41magfan]

Irrespective of the semantics used in the UOF continuum (which has limited civilian application), I think it's safe to say Zimmerman would not be a household word had he possessed an alternative option to the gun - and the wherewithal to use it.

[SpyderMan2k4]

Irrespective of the semantics used in the UOF continuum (which has limited civilian application), I think it's safe to say Zimmerman would not be a household word had he possessed an alternative option to the gun - and the wherewithal to use it.

Exactly