Biomechanics of grip...Haley/Pincus...

[jthhapkido]

Don't know if this is the best thread for this but... Karl Rehn presented a fascinating lecture on some objective testing he's been doing. He's looked at the "hit" you take when you drop down to a pocket rocket from a full-size pistol using objective numbers. He also spent some time discussing grip strength and its impact on shooting. One of his conclusions was that the classic Gunsite crossed thumbs grip is really advantageous for someone with weak grip strength - especially women. He now encourages a thumbs forward for a default grip but has totally reconsidered the crossed thumbs for new, weaker shooters.

I'd love to hear more about this also---particularly because what I've seen in classes is that it makes things worse.

Maybe I'm thinking about a different grip.

There are some people out there with weak grips that simply won't ever practice much, so teaching them technique that will result in optimal performance given sufficient practice is not nearly as important as teaching them a technique that'll be decent enough for them to get shots on target while being safe when they don't practice much. So---if the crossed thumbs grip can help those folks, I'd like to hear more!

Like I said, though, particularly with smaller pistols (9mm in a subcompact size, as an example), that's not what I've seen---or when you say "pocket pistols" are you meaning tiny .32s and .22s? Either way, I'd like to hear more if you've got the information to share.

[HopetonBrown]

They announced a Haley pistol class in my area. I downloaded the .pdf outlining the class. It was chock full of so much ridiculous psuedo science jargon it actually put us all off the class and we didn't go. I was going to reference some of the words used for this thread, so I went to his website to read the .pdf again. They've since removed most of the offending words.

[Lomshek]

They announced a Haley pistol class in my area. I downloaded the .pdf outlining the class. It was chock full of so much ridiculous psuedo science jargon it actually put us all off the class and we didn't go. I was going to reference some of the words used for this thread, so I went to his website to read the .pdf again. They've since removed most of the offending words.

I think in spite of that I'd have gone (and will if I get the chance). I've never heard bad things said about him as an instructor and the training video snippets I've watched have all had solid info in a well presented (if sometimes wordy) manner.

[hossb7]

Another excellent video on grip and hand placement while shooting. Pseudo-science and Rob Pincus were not involved in the making of this film

[BaiHu]

Funny you should post that video, because I just saw that recently too.

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[PPGMD]

I honestly think that too many people concentrate on the ONE WAY.

I don't think about recoil control, it is something that happens automatically the gun comes back on target. My grip technique is very similar to Bob Vogel's, and I don't even lean over that much. I know people that use Haley's technique while leaning over as if they were in a Cat 5 hurricane and it works well for them. We are all just a little different that one technique may not work for every person.

ETA: The more I've gotten into this "there is no one way" mood. The more I've realized that Enos is right. Shooting is a personal journey. I don't quite agree with this idea that we are a third party bystander during a match (I think that high speed video does a better job maybe that view will change in another decade). But the idea that you need to spend time developing your own technique that works best for you rings true to me more and more.

[Lomshek]

Another excellent video on grip and hand placement while shooting. Pseudo-science and Rob Pincus were not involved in the making of this film

Rock solid except for the cameraman downrange at 3:40. Kind of reminded me of this.



I've never met Kyle or Travis and everything I've seen about them says they're both great trainers but one can't hold that video up as a great example while mocking Haley for using words above his pay grade.

[hossb7]

Funny you should post that video, because I just saw that recently too.

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I've been following his TriggerTimeTV videos for a while. Kyle is good people.

[hossb7]

Rock solid except for the cameraman downrange at 3:40. Kind of reminded me of this.

[IMG]http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/FXhummel1-Tactical-Response-Photographer-Downrange.jpg[IMG]

I've never met Kyle or Travis and everything I've seen about them says they're both great trainers but one can't hold that video up as a great example while mocking Haley for using words above his pay grade.

I dont think it's nearly the same thing. camera man looked to be about 45* off whereas the tactical response dude is almost dead center. I'm not saying it's the best placement but let's not get sidetracked on this thread.

[PPGMD]

Rock solid except for the cameraman downrange at 3:40. Kind of reminded me of this.

Seriously?!? The gun was clearly unloaded, and at no point was he pointing the gun at or even near the camera man.