Slide lock release versus slingshotting

[JSGlock34]

My first exposure to semi auto pistols was at Ft McClellan, AL in 1989. We were taught the sling shot method using both the 1911 and Beretta. I honestly think it was easier for them to teach the sling shot method en masse because of the two platforms (I remember that a lot of MP units were still running 1911's at that time). I still didn't carry a Beretta until 1993.

1994 I ran a Beretta 92 FS in the academy. They also taught the sling shot. I have taken several classes since then and most say do one or the other...not both. I do occasionally train to use the sling shot and other methods to get the pistol back in battery just to do something different but the slide stop is my preferred method now-a-days as it is faster for me.

This is an important point and I think a reason why the slingshot or over-hand techniques are so widely encountered. These techniques make a lot of sense when teaching a large number of inexperienced or transitioning shooters in a limited time window. At one time Glock's training department advocated this technique (my experience is dated and I don't know what they teach now) and even the nomenclature they used for the firearm controls reinforced it ('slide stop' not 'slide release'). Considering the widespread use of Glock pistols, Glock has probably provided this training to countless law enforcement departments and military units, and some of those base their own training curriculum off of Glock's original format.

Larry Vickers points out that among the Glock's many attributes is that it is "Incredibly simple to operate - 2 levers/buttons and 1 is optional." I'll take a SWAG that he didn't mean the magazine release was the optional one. With a large group of new shooters, teaching the slingshot/overhand method essentially eliminates the use of one control from the training. No doubt this was considered a plus when transitioning revolver shooters to the more 'complex' semiautomatic.

As pointed out earlier, this technique is also ambidextrous - no wasted time explaining different techniques due to handedness. It will likely work on the majority of pistols encountered on the street or battlefield should the need arise. There are also some folks who, for whatever reason, simply cannot reach or reliably activate the slide release.

Last, it is very reliable. With new shooters reliability is more important than speed - we're more concerned that they get an empty firearm back into action than whether they can shave a 1-2 seconds off of their reload time. Considering the high capacity of many modern firearms, the small difference in reload time may well be inconsequential for most users.

It is a very uncomplicated to train, reliable technique.

However, many of us have progressed beyond this level of instruction into training that has pushed our skills. We are looking for efficiencies wherever they can be found. Using the slide release during reloads is undeniably a faster, more efficient technique.

None of these techniques is the only way or the right way - they all have their place depending on the individual shooter, their training, skill level, mission, gear and situation.

[Totem Polar]

With the caveat that I'm no expert, I think defining terms is important. i would have to vote "none of the above", based on what I've been taught.

Slingshot:



Overhand:



I could be off base here, but I've seen plenty of people get chastised in class for using the former method. I use the latter, but I'm no pro operator. Incidentally, I was also taught to use the support (left) hand on the lock/release by LFI affiliates, so I've seen both sides of the argument. I'm an overhand guy for commonality/reliability. But, again, grain of salt that relative to *many* on this board.

[JSGlock34]

I think your exemplars of 'slingshot' and 'overhand' are fine, but each has its advocates and merits. This has come up from time to time (I've linked some threads) and not just in the context of reloading, but also in clearing malfunctions. Again, gear plays a role - my first pistols (a S&W 5903 and a Beretta M9) had slide mounted safeties and lent themselves more to the slingshot method. This thread on slingshotting was derived from discussion on the particulars of manipulating the slide on CZ pistols, but largely debated the merits of each technique.

Come to think of it, there are a lot of these threads...

Your point though is well taken - the poll should probably be reworded to read 'slingshot/overhand' or overhand should be a distinct choice.

[Tamara]

I could be off base here, but I've seen plenty of people get chastised in class for using the former method. I use the latter, but I'm no pro operator.

To clarify, I did my slingshot overhand ( ) but I don't do that no mo'.

[farscott]

After many years of using the overhand method, I now use my left thumb to run the slide release as my right thumb and fingers are too short without changing grip.

[Redhat]

Either...depending on the user friendliness of the slide stop/release.

[tomr]

Ah! I'm an "Overhander." Will attempt to see if thumb wants to participate....

Thanks for all this

[Arclight]

Maybe he or someone else would be kind enough to expound on this method. I'm always willing to learn as I would much prefer to use the slide release. Another tool in the toolbox and all that.

Sure, I'll weigh in here. Short version -- I was always trained to use the overhand method based on "gross motor skills" and "most reliable" and such, especially as a lefty. While I have mixed feelings about the former argument, I have proven that the overhand can be more reliable as far as gun function goes. (More on that later.) As I started to speed up, however, I had a couple of instructors encourage me to try using the slide release instead, since it's significantly faster. At first I found it impossibly fiddly and rejected the idea, but eventually Todd talked me into giving it an honest try and, with some practice, found I could shave real time off my reloads and do it as consistently as the overhand rack (which itself can be tricky if your hands or gun are wet).

As far as how to use the slide release (slide stop lever?) as a lefty, here's my preferred method: When the heel of the support hand seats the magazine, the first and/or middle finger of that hand reach around and pull the slide release down, releasing the slide. (To visualize, simulate where your hands would be as the magazine is seated. Unless you do something funky with your hands, the support hand is probably spread with the fingers on the side of the gun where the slide release is.) While this isn't quite as easy as it would be if you were right handed and could just use your thumb, it does work well with practice. It also puts your support hand much closer to where it needs to end up than it would be with an overhand slide release, so I find it to be much faster. You *may* want to change the size/shape of your slide stop lever if you find it hard to catch in a hurry.

So, back to reliability. I normally shoot a Gen3 G19, and this method works perfectly with that gun. However, I (used to) occasionally shoot a G34. What I found is that the slide release method was not always giving me enough forward force on the slide to fully seat it and I was getting malfunctions (not frequently, but my G19 has never malfunctioned in ~8k+ rounds, so this got my attention). I talked to a bunch of Glock armorers, including one resident here, and a few of them pointed out that Glock doesn't consider that lever a slide release, but rather a slide stop. The "official" method for sending the slide forward is the overhand rack. Apparently some of the bigger guns (or possibly as the springs age, get dirty, or a combination thereof), need that little bit of extra tension and clean release gained in the overhand movement to seat it fully every time. I'm not 100% sure that's the diagnosis, but I never had that problem when using the overhand, I exclusively had it when using the slide stop, and all the mechanics seemed to work out when I tested it dry. Sometimes it just didn't go quite all the way into place. For the record, I have since adopted two G17s (g3 and g4) and neither has any issue with the slide stop method.

The best advice I have for lefties is to put a bunch of range and dry fire time into whatever method you think will work best for you. Then go take a class or compete (or something where you've got a bit of stress on you) and see if the wheels come off. 99% of the time, I find the underhand slide release method is perfectly doable under stress. That said, I still find that when I get really stressed, my lizard brain goes back to the overhand rack, and I'm okay with that. Just shows that the years of training I put into that early on have stuck with me.

[NETim]

Sure, I'll weigh in here. Short version -- I was always trained to use the overhand method based on "gross motor skills" and "most reliable" and such, especially as a lefty. While I have mixed feelings about the former argument, I have proven that the overhand can be more reliable as far as gun function goes. (More on that later.) As I started to speed up, however, I had a couple of instructors encourage me to try using the slide release instead, since it's significantly faster. At first I found it impossibly fiddly and rejected the idea, but eventually Todd talked me into giving it an honest try and, with some practice, found I could shave real time off my reloads and do it as consistently as the overhand rack (which itself can be tricky if your hands or gun are wet).

As far as how to use the slide release (slide stop lever?) as a lefty, here's my preferred method: When the heel of the support hand seats the magazine, the first and/or middle finger of that hand reach around and pull the slide release down, releasing the slide. (To visualize, simulate where your hands would be as the magazine is seated. Unless you do something funky with your hands, the support hand is probably spread with the fingers on the side of the gun where the slide release is.) While this isn't quite as easy as it would be if you were right handed and could just use your thumb, it does work well with practice. It also puts your support hand much closer to where it needs to end up than it would be with an overhand slide release, so I find it to be much faster. You *may* want to change the size/shape of your slide stop lever if you find it hard to catch in a hurry.

So, back to reliability. I normally shoot a Gen3 G19, and this method works perfectly with that gun. However, I (used to) occasionally shoot a G34. What I found is that the slide release method was not always giving me enough forward force on the slide to fully seat it and I was getting malfunctions (not frequently, but my G19 has never malfunctioned in ~8k+ rounds, so this got my attention). I talked to a bunch of Glock armorers, including one resident here, and a few of them pointed out that Glock doesn't consider that lever a slide release, but rather a slide stop. The "official" method for sending the slide forward is the overhand rack. Apparently some of the bigger guns (or possibly as the springs age, get dirty, or a combination thereof), need that little bit of extra tension and clean release gained in the overhand movement to seat it fully every time. I'm not 100% sure that's the diagnosis, but I never had that problem when using the overhand, I exclusively had it when using the slide stop, and all the mechanics seemed to work out when I tested it dry. Sometimes it just didn't go quite all the way into place. For the record, I have since adopted two G17s (g3 and g4) and neither has any issue with the slide stop method.

The best advice I have for lefties is to put a bunch of range and dry fire time into whatever method you think will work best for you. Then go take a class or compete (or something where you've got a bit of stress on you) and see if the wheels come off. 99% of the time, I find the underhand slide release method is perfectly doable under stress. That said, I still find that when I get really stressed, my lizard brain goes back to the overhand rack, and I'm okay with that. Just shows that the years of training I put into that early on have stuck with me.

This is exactly my experience. I have no trouble dropping the slide with the tips of my support hand after I seat the mag. Significantly faster to get back into action.

[ST911]

I was a long time user and advocate of the overhand method, arguing against the slide stops/slide releases and the slingshot as less reliable methods of slide manipulation. A couple of years ago or so, it was one of the truths I challenged and learning occurred. For me, the slide stop is faster and just as reliable. It's a good decision for me.

For groups of recruits, new shooters, or those that won't work their skills, I think the overhand method remains a better option. As others note, it works with a broad range of guns, both hands, situations which need the slide to be run, and requires less overall time to teach/maintain.

See also: Automated side-step technique.

Run both methods on the clock; invariably I and virtually everyone else I know is faster using a slide lock, be it a 1911, M9, M11, 3rd gen S&W, HK USP/P30/P45, Glock, or M&P...

Overhand method adds about half a second to my reload time. The slingshot slightly more, .6-.7.