Col. Cooper's/Gunsite's Four Rules...

[JHC]

What about air guns/finger guns?

Nice! LOL

[Cookie Monster]

For those of you who treat blue guns and SIRTs as you would a functioning gun, what is the point (to you) of the existence of blue guns and SIRTs? Why not just use real guns if you act the same with non-guns?

I get the peeve people have about totally casual and disorganized handling of non-guns, but isn't the whole reason they exist that we can do things with non-guns that have educational or training value, but wouldn't be safe with a real, functioning gun?

I've been in plenty of classes where the instructor asserted that blue guns be treated the same as real guns, then proceeded to use the blue gun to demo basic use of cover, during which they point the blue gun toward the students. That's not treating a blue gun like it's real, that's exploiting its inert nature (to me, quite properly.) I think what those instructors really meant was to admonish play and totally disorganized handling of blue guns, rather than what they said they meant.

What do you think?

I totally agree. Used in training or a structured way or etc. You can start pointing blue guns at things. I've been to a few classes where the instructor is "doodling" with the blue gun the whole class and waving it around and sweeping the class with it. In and out of the pants/holster/etc and I start to wonder at what point is he going to mix his real gun and the blue gun up. Kinda makes me nervous.

Different when a professional (paid or not) instructor says, "To show X, I am going to X the class with the blue gun and then proceeds to education/drill better done with blue gun." Uses the tool and puts away instead of continuing to play with it like he is 9.

Cheers,
Cookie Monster

[orionz06]

Nice! LOL

I wasn't entirely joking. If that crowd that treats a blue gun exactly like a loaded gun is that serious how can they slip enough to allow themselves when in gun-mode to slip up and make a finger gun/air gun that breaks the same rules?

[MDS]

I wasn't entirely joking. If that crowd that treats a blue gun exactly like a loaded gun is that serious how can they slip enough to allow themselves when in gun-mode to slip up and make a finger gun/air gun that breaks the same rules?

I'm in the camp that points gun-like things at people. I don't want to think about the spiral of depression I'd fall into if the took away my water guns. But every time, even with a finger gun, I have this odd instinct that I have to overrule. I think that's a good thing for safety...I just hope it doesn't get me killed on the street.

[JHC]

I'm in the camp that points gun-like things at people. I don't want to think about the spiral of depression I'd fall into if the took away my water guns. But every time, even with a finger gun, I have this odd instinct that I have to overrule. I think that's a good thing for safety...I just hope it doesn't get me killed on the street.

At least simulate showing clear please. Best to keep that muscle memory firm.

[Tamara]

I'm in the camp that points gun-like things at people. I don't want to think about the spiral of depression I'd fall into if the took away my water guns. But every time, even with a finger gun, I have this odd instinct that I have to overrule. I think that's a good thing for safety...I just hope it doesn't get me killed on the street.

Never point a water gun at anything you're not willing to get wet.

[j.d.allen]

I've never understood the "always loaded" thing. If you ALWAYS assume a weapon is loaded you would never clean, disassemble, or dry fire it. I prefer the version one of my first instructors taught me. Always assume a weapon is loaded until you yourself have inspected it.

[pax]

j.d.,

That version leads directly to this:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eP6UvNgbqIA

Worst of all possible variants of that rule.

pax

[KevinB]

I've never understood the "always loaded" thing. If you ALWAYS assume a weapon is loaded you would never clean, disassemble, or dry fire it. I prefer the version one of my first instructors taught me. Always assume a weapon is loaded until you yourself have inspected it.

Context is everything - but regardless if it is clear or not, you treat it with the same diligence you would a loaded gun -- I.E> Don't point it at people your not trying to shoot. Don't assume anything, it makes an ass out of you and me.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The rules are not to be take literally as they lead to impossible situations, such as never cleaning. They are mnemonic devices to point out the serious nature of misuse of weapons.

Given the real functioning of the human mind, slips will happen even to the most careful. The 4 rules author, Jeff Cooper, left rounds in the butt stock of a scout rifle. Then some idiot loaded it and ND'ed, IIRC.

It's a trivial comment to expect an absolute and literal adherence to the 4 rules.