Are we training right?

[ToddG]

So would it be accurate to say that when you think of 'high ready', that includes a range of muzzle tilting to include straight up, in order to conform to the space available and not muzzle some nearby face?

Yes. It's not a rigid down-to-the-tenth-of-a-degree kind of thing.

As for retention, I'd note that the basic version of the high ready I do, with the gun at about a 45-degree angle in front of me, was originally developed specifically for being in and around crowds of hostile people and -- if done properly -- provides both protection against gun grabs and an obviously quick return to "the two" when necessary.

Candidly, I'm hard pressed to believe that any ready position is foolproof when we're talking about literally slaloming our way past a huge number of unknowns.

[Mr_White]

Falling...I am a big advocate of essentially walking fast when a gun is in my hand. That is simply a personal experience thing again. You want to run, great, but holster up or use some specific techniques with the long gun. The problem is when you are "running" with a gun in hand you are moving faster than you can think. If you need to move that quickly, you can holster and really run and then draw when you stabilize again. Keep in mind, this comes from a guy who is A. A total klutz, B. Can duckwalk faster than I can run, and C. Have found that I "run" better and much more efficiently without things in my hand. YMMV

People run safely while holding a pistol in their hand(s) in competition all the time.

[Mr_White]

Candidly, I'm hard pressed to believe that any ready position is foolproof when we're talking about literally slaloming our way past a huge number of unknowns.

I definitely agree with that.

[wilco423]

People run safely while holding a pistol in their hand(s) in competition all the time.

True, but in that setting, the only other person running is the RO, and they're staying behind you. When there are other people running about, particularly in the foot chase scenario, running with a gun in your hand MAY not be the best choice. I've fallen in a foot chase, and I'm glad I didn't have my gun out at the time.

[GJM]

How about if people were chasing you?

And what is up with Defoor and others with running in so many of their drills?

[Mr_White]

[Shawn.L]

I was at that class. Kyle filmed it during lunch break.

First time training with Kyle the first thing we did after intro's and safety brief was "Are your mags loaded? Test #1" one shooter at a time while he recorded the scores in front of the whole class. Ive taken a number of his courses and they ALL include at some point hauling ass with a gun in hand around others.

On the running with the gun out, I think its a basic matter of gun handling and athleticism. Gun games bring this out, and those that play them ime are much more comfortable with it than those that dont. In AMIS craig teaches a method for running with the gun in hand as well.

[Dagga Boy]

Holy F*ck, I missed the part about when you round the corner around a car in a perfectly flat and dry asphalt parking lot and hit the slick of differential fluid where someone decided that doing a rear end change was a great idea. Yeah, that was TOTALLY different than when I was running between cones on a nice flat range at competition shoots, and all the bleeding was an interesting addition to the mix. How about in the dark.......they do put curbs in the dark in competition...right? Let's see.....wet floor at the mall, isn't that in the IDPA classifier. If you want to run with a gun next to your head because Kyle Defoor does, knock yourself out. I know, SEAL's run high and it is impossible to disarm them....got it. You should too.

Yes Todd...no ready or position is foolproof, which is why I use stuff that I can drive hard back to retention. And that is not on theory, but have done for real on multiple occasions with different situations and crooks. I know its not "match" or "special operations" awesome, but it works for me so I will continue to use it and others can figure it out just like I did and come to their own conclusions. I was just trying to save others all the bleeding and the "holy crap this sucks bad" and literally fighting for your life part of the learning curve. You will also find that stuff that works with your special operations team, made up of the top 1% of the U.S. military, gets a little different when you are all by yourself.

GJM, can you run for your life faster with a gun or without one? If you are running from criminals and hopefully towards help....is the help going to perceive you as a threat with a gun in your hand. If you fall and lose the gun, is that bad. If you end up in a physical FUT, or whatever the proper acronym is, do you want to be fighting over the gun, or shooting from retention in a draw at your choosing. Again, situationally dependent, but you need to think about numerous factors. For you, running from a bear in a remote area may be different than running out of a shopping mall in an active shooter or terrorist incident.

[Mr_White]

I appreciate you offering your perspective. What I'm getting at is that there are a number of sources and venues of experience, and there are also various authorities with different backgrounds that apparently either advocate running with the gun in hand, or allow for it to be a realistic possibility. Prior to your comment, I'd never heard it recommended that during an emergency, one make an SOP of holstering a pistol before running. That was a new one on me and I was surprised, but I'm always interested in at least considering another person's hard-won perspective.

[Mr_White]

I was at that class. Kyle filmed it during lunch break.

First time training with Kyle the first thing we did after intro's and safety brief was "Are your mags loaded? Test #1" one shooter at a time while he recorded the scores in front of the whole class. Ive taken a number of his courses and they ALL include at some point hauling ass with a gun in hand around others.

Sounds awesome Shawn. Nowhere to hide one's skills in that kind of environment. I'd really like to train with Defoor at some point.