P30 Initial Impressions

[Lot2Learn]

So...I was able to finally shoot a P30 tonight. The gun even has the TLG LEM trigger in it complete with the Heine sights. My background is with Glocks, I have been carrying a G19 for the past 4 years or so and it has served me well, I have taken a couple of classes with it, including AFHF. I like the G19, it's reliable and accurate as well as easy for me to shoot. In USPSA, I shoot the G17 which for all intents and purposes is like shooting the same gun. Now, back to the H&K.

I have always wanted to shoot one with the LEM trigger, Most people on this forum can understand why. For me, it was because I am bored with my Glocks and I think it is time to learn how to shoot another gun. I also wanted to know what the big deal is about a gun that costs twice as much as glock and I am not really interesting in the M&P at this point. Here are my thoughts.

What I liked:

1. This gun is accurate!
2. Recoil is very controllable and smooth. I like how the sights track.
3. Trigger, I like how the LEM works. This gun feels like it was made for the press-out. Reset will take some getting used to but I don't think it would be too hard.
4. Sights, I had forgotten how much I like the Heine straight Eight. Right now I have been shooting the Warrens but I may change back to these. They are easier for me to stay focused on the front sight.

What I didn't like:
1. I have to change my grip to get the slide to lock back consistently. Frankly, it felt foreign. Again, probably a training issue. Doing a 1R2 drill was downright frustrating.

So besides my grip issues, I really like this pistol. Does it function in a manner totally different than my current pistols? Absolutely! But, that is half the fun. I would really like to buy one, But the price is the hardest part for me to deal with. Yes, I know I would be getting a great pistol I just don't have the funds to buy one. Right now I would just like to have a case of ammo or two...I am sure some of you can relate.

I guess my biggest take away from this was that I like the LEM trigger a lot. It makes me think of what else I may be missing out on, like TDA guns. Time will tell.

[Harm]

I just picked up a TDA version of the P30, decocker only, living it, I'm experiencing a bit of what you describe as struggling with riding the slide release but just modifying my existing grip should be ok.

I like the DA trigger, trying to adapt to the long SA trigger, it's smooth but it's LONG.

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[TheTrevor]

If slide lock back due to interference between grip and levers is a difficult issue to overcome, "shorty" levers are available which drop right in.

I have size-L hands, though, and I've been shooting HKs for nearly 20 years with no issues. It's certainly possible for most folks to adjust to an effective grip which doesn't interfere with running the gun.

[ToddG]

I guess my biggest take away from this was that I like the LEM trigger a lot. It makes me think of what else I may be missing out on, like TDA guns. Time will tell.

That's a great, open-minded attitude, Lots2Learn! I wish more shooters could break out of their "what I've got is best!" mentality and experiment from time to time. Even if you go right back to what you've already got, at least you can appreciate that there are other options that might work for other people. Not everyone has to shoot the same gun.

Having said that, do you feel like you've reached your personal zenith with the Glock? Or are you still improving over time? If you've still got room to grow & learn with the Glock, and it works and you're shooting it well, I'd be the first to say that those cases of ammo are worth more than a new gun (plus a backup new gun, plus all new support gear). Switching guns can be a boon or a curse... and trust me, as someone who's changed every year or two for the past seven years, you can't always predict in advance how it's going to work out in the long term.

[Alpha Sierra]

It's certainly possible for most folks to adjust to an effective grip which doesn't interfere with running the gun.

True. But not everyone has the burning desire to do so. I come to this from a different angle than the majority here. If a pistol system does not lend itself readily to my grip style (which is pretty conventional and always a refinement in progress), it goes away.

That's pretty much why I've settled on Glocks and S&W revolvers while S&W M&Ps, S&W 3rd Gen TDAs, and TDA SIGs have gone on down the road.

Not saying that I am averse to trying other systems (SIG DAK, etc). Just saying that I'm not going to spend an inordinate amount of time/effort trying to adjust to something that doesn't work relatively well for me right off the bat.

[ToddG]

If a pistol system does not lend itself readily to my grip style (which is pretty conventional and always a refinement in progress), it goes away.

I have to make small adjustments to my grip no matter what gun I pick up. Most folks will tell you even a G17 and G19 are slightly different. Certainly as even an identical-platofrm gun gets bigger or smaller there are changes in terms of how your hands reach controls, etc.

My #1 concern when I started my P30 test was whether the slide would lock back. So as soon as I got the gun I tested that and quickly found a very minor change (angling my WH thumb down into the grooves of the light rail) that guaranteed success. If I'd insisted on keeping my thumb angled a few degrees straighter, I never would have been able to use the P30.

Now I've made one of the trickiest transitions in the shooting world: after two years of religiously riding a 1911 thumb safety, I'm shooting a SIG that won't lock back if I put my thumb in the same location. With a few days of dry fire, I was able to accommodate and on my first live fire training day with the SIG had no problems gripping the gun tightly enough to control recoil and guarantee lockback on an empty chamber.

Being unable to adapt to a gun is one thing. Being unwilling to make inconsequential changes will simply close a lot of doors for potential learning and experimentation. It's no different than people who say they'll only shoot guns that point like a Glock... even though the grip angle shouldn't make much difference if you're using the little bumpy things atop the gun to aim.

[hufnagel]

Lot2Learn: congrats on liking it. You'll be in good company here.

That being said if you get one do all you can to train around the slide release "issue." If you can't though, don't consider it a failure on your part. I've tried to for 5 years now but the start of arthritis in both thumbs (and trigger fingers! ) has rendered that effort futile. I switched the releases to the Safety/shorty style on one of my guns and things improved markedly for me. That's me though. It's also meant I'm giving up using the slide release to drop the slide on reloads and switching to slingshotting the slide instead. Not because I can't reach the shorter release but it's less reliable because I have less of a perch on it with my thumb.

[warpedcamshaft]

I have to make small adjustments to my grip no matter what gun I pick up. Most folks will tell you even a G17 and G19 are slightly different. Certainly as even an identical-platofrm gun gets bigger or smaller there are changes in terms of how your hands reach controls, etc.

My #1 concern when I started my P30 test was whether the slide would lock back. So as soon as I got the gun I tested that and quickly found a very minor change (angling my WH thumb down into the grooves of the light rail) that guaranteed success. If I'd insisted on keeping my thumb angled a few degrees straighter, I never would have been able to use the P30.

Now I've made one of the trickiest transitions in the shooting world: after two years of religiously riding a 1911 thumb safety, I'm shooting a SIG that won't lock back if I put my thumb in the same location. With a few days of dry fire, I was able to accommodate and on my first live fire training day with the SIG had no problems gripping the gun tightly enough to control recoil and guarantee lockback on an empty chamber.

Being unable to adapt to a gun is one thing. Being unwilling to make inconsequential changes will simply close a lot of doors for potential learning and experimentation. It's no different than people who say they'll only shoot guns that point like a Glock... even though the grip angle shouldn't make much difference if you're using the little bumpy things atop the gun to aim.

Quick question (I've wanted to ask this for a long time): Do you think that most people, say over 90 percent, could learn to shoot just about any reputable duty handgun at a high level given training and dedicated practice? (There are some ergonomic issues I've seen with my little wife and trigger reach, but she can still shoot most handguns fairly well.)

I've spent a good amount of time performance tracking with a wide variety of handguns... Beretta's, Sig's, HK's, Glock's, M&P's, 1911's, etc... and aside from some precision issues (had an M&P benched that couldn't hold 8 inches at 25 yards), I can usually get around the same performance level. (Hack standards 280's-290's, CSAT standards, Defoor Standards, etc...)

When I initially have issues with something new, I usually find that it is ME and not the handgun... I notice that a lot of people tend to blame the handgun rather than focusing on improving their skill and familiarity. (Big examples: LEM trigger, Traditional Double/Single action trigger, SIG's...(palm to face)... "bore axis", etc)

People get seem to get so wrapped up and invest a lot of ego in their "flavor of choice", and it seems silly to me... I've also noticed that a lot of these folks are more interested in talking about guns than learning to shoot them well.

[ToddG]

Quick question (I've wanted to ask this for a long time): Do you think that most people, say over 90 percent, could learn to shoot just about any reputable duty handgun at a high level given training and dedicated practice?

I absolutely think that 90% of the people could learn to shoot multiple "platforms" at a high level.

But once you start reaching that level, preferences are going to set in. For example, I really prefer a reversed mag button. Have I run guns without that capability and done well enough? Yes. But it's a hindrance and I'd prefer to do it "my way."

Then there are even smaller, possibly inconsequential things we call preferences but are likely really more affectations when we start measuring performance in the most trivial tiny detail. My personal example/confession is the difference between the reset on an HK LEM (which I shot just fine) and the SIG SRT (which is an easy button for fast blind splits and may make a fraction of a fraction of a second difference in real shooting). Do I really need that? No. But it made a huge impact on my decision as to which gun to shoot this year.

[1slow]

With size XL hands to keep from inadvertently interfering with the slide stop, I have to put WH thumb in light rail grove and SH thumb piggyback behind/on top of WH thumb.
Bill Rogers suggested this grip change in 2009 when I was having issues with my GL17 during class. I was having the GL17 occasionally lock back while still loaded and fail to lock back when empty. This was with stock slide release.

I have to be slightly more emphatic about WH thumb behind SH thumb with the P30, HK45, P2000SK.
I find the HKs to be worth the trouble and have not found a downside to this grip change.
Shooting 1 handed I curl the thumb down and forward to my middle finger so it does not interfere with the slide release.