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Thread: USPSA again

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    In this area, I think the match designers are open shooters, or designing matches for the open shooters -- with high round counts and lots of moving stuff. I am certainly not complaining, because the more different and difficult shooting tasks someone else designed, the better.
    It is true, most of the shootings that participate in match directing tend to be shooters that have been there to longest and have switched to limited or open as their primary divisions.

    OTOH most common moving target, swingers, aren't that hard, once you get a chance to practice them outside the match environment.

    On the way home from the match I was reflecting on this, and came to the conclusion, that if your gun is reliable, platform is almost irrelevant in USPSA, until at the highest levels of competition, because the shooting is so varied, and movement so significant to the outcome, that specific platform attributes that seem so important to me get averaged out.
    Definitely true. Though I would add that the shooter needs to be in tune with their gun, and sometimes a certain platform may not work for a particular shooter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. No View Post
    2. One handed is rare in the sports. You will see it in classifiers or when match directors set up props that have to be held open. (See that a lot with ports that have a covering)
    Personally I actually like the fact that course designers have to think of a valid reason for people to be shooting SHO/WHO.

    3. It definitely continues. It actually increases as you get better. You invest more time and effort into your training, you go further to matches, you want to succeed more and more. That pressure is self imposed and is difficult to deal with. The first year I shot Nationals I felt some pressure because I had invested a lot of time and money to go, but mostly I was having fun. The first time I shot with my entire team I felt a lot more because I wanted to prove myself. It was difficult to deal with..

    If you are a contender to win there is definitely pressure. At that level (even in a state match) small mistakes can cost you the win. Often those matches are decided by 5-10 points.....
    Only if you let it. If you have confidence in your skills and just go and have fun you will be surprised of the results you get. Granted I treat USPSA as a fun match, rather than one of the sports I dedicate practice time to. Also I sort of sand bag as I haven't shot a match that has a classifier in it in over two years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Nesbitt View Post
    I've found stage design to be a localized issue. I've shot at a couple of clubs that had Area/Nationals quality stages at local club matches. Others, it looked like they backed up the truck and stopped real fast. Wherever the targets landed is where they stayed for the match.
    Quote Originally Posted by littlejerry View Post
    I think stage design varies from club to club. There are 3 major clubs around Atlanta and each has its own quirks or charm.
    I got to agree about stage design. I also think it has to do with the ranges that the clubs have available. Clubs that have more space per a stage might design for elaborate stages, have longer shots, and typically have more props. Also clubs that are at ranges that allow them to setup the day before also have better stages as they have more than 1-2 hours to setup the entire match.

    The guys over at USA have some pretty elaborate stage designs, but they have a ton of time to setup. They've told me that the month before the match they might build a stage a day.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Hearne View Post
    Reitz related something similar to this about their experiences when competition based guys did training. When the competitive guys were told to clear the shoothouse, they'd ask how many threats, where are they, etc? His response, was "go find out." Once they didn't know how many and where, their speeds were no better than anyone else.

    I would have to say that few competitor realize how much of their performance advantage comes from knowing the stage layout in advance and being able to develop a shooting plan in advance. When you start introducing shoot/no-shoot decisions into stages (blind stuff) everyone clusters together a lot more. I'm not saying there is no difference, those who shoot faster and accurate still do so, but the difference between first and last is a lot less.

    The other ugly fact is that smarter people have more raw processing power than dumber people and processing on the fly will always go to the smarter person, all other things being equal.
    Their speeds were no better than anyone else because utilizing correct tactics (clearing by yourself, which is stupid anyway and incredibly dangerous) generally disregards time. Is it more important to pie a corner in 3 seconds versus 1.5 when I can't watch my own back? It is probably more important to pie a corner and pick up a threat, then identify whether it is a deadly force threat or not, give it verbal commands, and then proceed with lethal/less lethal/combative options. If you run into a real house and shoot 32 rounds and put down 16 bad guys by yourself ..... you are in a movie.

    Competitors will almost always beat strict tacticians in shooting tests ... because they are better shooters. They perform at a higher level because they push themselves during competition and in practice. Competitors generally are completely clueless about tactics ... because they are not tacticians. They do not train in CQB techniques, with a team, using less lethal options, or doing threat evaluation (aside from white and brown). They do however possess an innate ability to make decisions at extremely high speed, as a result of performing at a high level and having to deal with problems while not slowing their pace.

    As far as your shoot/no-shoot decision point - IDPA does this quite a bit with "hands" they move around a series of targets in order to make the shooter discriminate. This generally does not slow top shooters pace at all. Obviously this is not a true representation of threat evaluation that goes on in the real world, but ...

    Completely agree on your last point. This works on both side of the house, but it is very apparent when things start to go sideways quickly.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by PPGMD View Post
    Only if you let it. If you have confidence in your skills and just go and have fun you will be surprised of the results you get. Granted I treat USPSA as a fun match, rather than one of the sports I dedicate practice time to. Also I sort of sand bag as I haven't shot a match that has a classifier in it in over two years.
    So .... you're saying match pressure doesn't effect you because you're no where near a top contender and you don't take it seriously....


    Might this be one of those "out of your lane" comments?

  4. #24
    Site Supporter Bill Nesbitt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PPGMD View Post
    Only if you let it. If you have confidence in your skills and just go and have fun you will be surprised of the results you get. Granted I treat USPSA as a fun match, rather than one of the sports I dedicate practice time to. Also I sort of sand bag as I haven't shot a match that has a classifier in it in over two years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. No View Post
    So .... you're saying match pressure doesn't effect you because you're no where near a top contender and you don't take it seriously....


    Might this be one of those "out of your lane" comments?
    I shoot mostly IDPA because that is what the local clubs shoot. At one of them, I am likely to be the top shooter much of the time. There are up to 10 or 12 people who show up that have the ability to win the match at any point in time, including 2 top level nationally know trainers. All here would recognize their names. I go in with no expectations of winning. My goals are to have fun and shoot a good match. I win often and am in the top 5 if I don't have the best score. There's a little zen going on.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. No View Post
    So .... you're saying match pressure doesn't effect you because you're no where near a top contender and you don't take it seriously....


    Might this be one of those "out of your lane" comments?
    I am top contender in other shooting sports.

    One of the biggest thing that takes the stress off me, is that I don't pay attention to the score, other than making sure that it is right, while I am shooting. I don't calculate hit factors, stage times, nor points until I am done shooting the match. The people that worry that they need to shoot a score of X to win, are the ones most likely to not shoot that score. Shoot the best match that you can and let the chips fall where they may. If you don't enjoy shooting the match, it becomes work and work sucks.

    I didn't invent this idea on my own, it is based in the techniques from the book With Winning in Mind.

    Granted after the shooting is done you will see me at a table with my score sheets and my phone's calculator app. I do want to make sure that everything is entered correctly.

  6. #26
    There are some jerks everywhere, as it sounds like this GM was. The folks I have met at these two local matches, were to the person, extremely polite and helpful. John, no idea how well that GM could really shoot, but I think it is a common fantasy of a tactical guy to think they can outshoot a GM. My historical experience, and confirmed in the last few years, is that guys don't become A, M and GM in USPSA without having excellent skills.

    Bill Rogers believes there is a lot more one hand shooting in real fights, than we practice for. As a dog owner, frequently with a leash in my hand, I completely get this. Leaving aside that you might be injured, or holding something with one hand in a fight, so many of my friends have been injured in life, and forced to carry with just one healthy arm, that I take those skills seriously.

    Finally, I have a theory that more of the C and D class shooters seem to be tactically oriented, and as shooters progress in USPSA, they often are more focused on the game than defense. I base this on both my observations of people arriving at and leaving matches, and my questioning about carry guns and holsters. Frank Proctor, apparently a retired Delta guy, and USPSA GM, is my hero model for a guy that has technical shooting skills and tactical ability. Since at the end of the day, I prioritize my ability to protect my pack, especially from a wild animal attack, the defensive part will always be most important.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Nesbitt View Post
    I shoot mostly IDPA because that is what the local clubs shoot. At one of them, I am likely to be the top shooter much of the time. There are up to 10 or 12 people who show up that have the ability to win the match at any point in time, including 2 top level nationally know trainers. All here would recognize their names. I go in with no expectations of winning. My goals are to have fun and shoot a good match. I win often and am in the top 5 if I don't have the best score. There's a little zen going on.
    Shooting local matches has nothing to do with National titles.

    Ask Nils Johannsen if he feels match pressure. Or Max Michel. Or Daniel Horner. They all do. They all have learned to manage it through experience, training, and mental preparation. Managing stress does not mean it goes away. The degree of stress one might feel is different for everyone, but to disregard it completely is silly.

  8. #28
    Site Supporter Bill Nesbitt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. No View Post
    Shooting local matches has nothing to do with National titles.

    Ask Nils Johannsen if he feels match pressure. Or Max Michel. Or Daniel Horner. They all do. They all have learned to manage it through experience, training, and mental preparation. Managing stress does not mean it goes away. The degree of stress one might feel is different for everyone, but to disregard it completely is silly.
    The only place I have a chance of National titles is in SSR in IDPA. I have a couple of second places in Master.

    People will handle match pressure in different ways. My way is to go into a match with absolutely no expectations to win. I completely ignore scores or times until my match is completely over. I hate to squad with people who tell me what my time is and how fast others shot the stage.

    I had a period of about a year where I won over all best score at every local IDPA match I entered. It would have been pretty easy to put pressure on myself to continue the streak. Instead I went into each match with no expectations. I shot my match and let the chips fall.

    I'm not sure how I would do if I was in the very top levels where the squad talks about scores and keeps a running track of who is ahead. It would be hard for me to ignore that talk and just shoot my match.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. No View Post
    Ask Nils Johannsen if he feels match pressure. Or Max Michel. Or Daniel Horner. They all do.
    They all have sponsors, reputations, even jobs dependent on their success.

    Most folks don't. No real world consequences means a lot less match stress.

    Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToddG View Post
    They all have sponsors, reputations, even jobs dependent on their success.

    Most folks don't. No real world consequences means a lot less match stress.

    Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
    Very true. I guess it all depends on how seriously you take your shooting and if you really want to be a top dog.

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