Slingshotting

[TheTrevor]

When I do malfunction clearance using slingshot, I rotate the gun ~160 degrees counterclockwise so that gravity assists in clearing the gun. When doing a TRB I find the rotational movement of my wrist to bring the slide into position, meeting my hand near the 160 degree mark, to be VERY fast and quite precise -- more so than bringing my support hand up over the top and reversing my grasp with that hand. Likewise when returning the gun back to firing position and re-engaging my support hand grip.

The closer in towards my body, though, the further up on the gun my hand goes during malfunction clearance. At a certain point, definitely by the time I'm in a close retention position, I find it natural to switch to overhand racking because that's how the mechanics work -- it's impossible to effectively slingshot the slide in close retention, at least for me.

Regarding chamber visibility: I don't need to see into the ejection port throughout the cycle, but I do want to catch a glimpse of what's going on in there at key points in the process. This is how I run a carbine, and I feel uncomfortable if I don't apply the same principles running a pistol. While I can run an effective clearance drill on a pistol without being eyes-on to what's going on inside at any point, I don't think it's the best way to run the gun if I have any choice in the matter.

[John Hearne]

FLETC dogma on the empty reload is:
1) Drop mag and rotate gun inboard - 30-45 degrees of movement.
2) Insert magazine
3) Roll gun so ejection port is up - 90 +30-45 degrees of movement.
4) Run slide
5) Return gun to vertical - 90 degrees of movement.
Total arc of movement 240-270 degrees of rotation with 3 start/stops

Overhand
1) Drop mag and roll gun inboard - 30-45 degrees
2) Insert magazine.
3) Return gun to vertical - 30-45 degrees
4) Run slide while gun vertical
Total arc of movement 60-90 degrees with 2 start/stops

I spent two week shooting next to two FAM instructors, one a former SEAL. It drove them crazy how I beat them on reloads - primarily because I was moving the gun around so much less.

[john556]

Neither is the complete solution for everyone due to reasons already stated in this thread. I have found that the slingshot method works the best for me. I may be an outlier in this regard, but I find that I'm able to obtain a more secure grip on the slide when pinching it between my thumb and forefinger.

[Dagga Boy]

How many of you guys using the slingshot are doing from positions other than standing on a range? Just curious as I find that it is difficult for me in any kind of asymmetric position.

Additionally on the thumbs. I have personally found that thumbs tend to get jacked up in fights. I have broken both of mine. Once head slapping a center when playing high school ball and the other time I got my primary thumb caught in between a crooks head and my flashlight in a very precarious position. In the shooting where my partner and I were ambushed, my right thumb was actually splinted and my hand taped, as it was three days after I broke it. It is a serious consideration based on not only injuries, but also the fact that many martial arts will use the thumb as a place to attack an opponent for control. This is also true of pistol take-aways, which may be why you are trying to get your pistol fixed.

[TheTrevor]

How many of you guys using the slingshot are doing from positions other than standing on a range? Just curious as I find that it is difficult for me in any kind of asymmetric position.

Slingshot requires a certain amount of forward arm extension to work (call me Captain Obvious) so for me it works in standing, high kneeling, and low kneeling (butt on foot) positions where I can project my weight forward. The further down/back my center of gravity goes, the more likely I am to be working close-in to my body, and therefore the more probable it is that I will instinctively switch to an overhand grip.

If you're implying that slingshot works best in a squared-up standing position on a range, and less well the further you get away from that... 100% agree.

[John Hearne]

more so than bringing my support hand up over the top and reversing my grasp with that hand. Likewise when returning the gun back to firing position and re-engaging my support hand grip.

When I overhand the slide, I do not reverse the hand motion. When I "tap" my hand pivots up and over. The hand runs the slide back and when the hand comes off due to the slide stopping, I continue with a circular motion to return the support hand. I can see where reversing the direction of the hand would slow things down.

[joshs]

FLETC dogma on the empty reload is:
1) Drop mag and rotate gun inboard - 30-45 degrees of movement.
2) Insert magazine
3) Roll gun so ejection port is up - 90 +30-45 degrees of movement.
4) Run slide
5) Return gun to vertical - 90 degrees of movement.
Total arc of movement 240-270 degrees of rotation with 3 start/stops

Overhand
1) Drop mag and roll gun inboard - 30-45 degrees
2) Insert magazine.
3) Return gun to vertical - 30-45 degrees
4) Run slide while gun vertical
Total arc of movement 60-90 degrees with 2 start/stops

I spent two week shooting next to two FAM instructors, one a former SEAL. It drove them crazy how I beat them on reloads - primarily because I was moving the gun around so much less.

I don't rack the slide for a reload, so I was just referring to running the slide for malfunction reduction

[TheTrevor]

When I overhand the slide, I do not reverse the hand motion. When I "tap" my hand pivots up and over. The hand runs the slide back and when the hand comes off due to the slide stopping, I continue with a circular motion to return the support hand. I can see where reversing the direction of the hand would slow things down.

Interesting. So, assuming that you're right-handed, you're doing the "tap" motion upwards with the heel of your left hand with your fingers pointed up alongside the port-side grip on the gun?

On one hand, I can see how that would be faster, as the support hand is indexed to go directly from tap to rack. On the other hand, it's a different motion from the one I use to seat a magazine, which positions my support hand fingers roughly 30 degrees off the center line on the starboard side of the gun. In that position, my hand/wrist/arm are well attuned to applying force to the magazine in the correct direction and feeling whether it's fully seated. That's not to say that I couldn't establish an equally effective movement and sensory feedback loop in the position you describe, but it does seem like something different to learn.

I just ran a few TRBs using my normal practice and your described technique. It seems like it's more instinctive to rotate the support wrist forward to position the palm for a mag-tap than it is to torque it back in preparation for an overhand rack. Instinctive is not necessarily better, but it might explain why people default to that technique.

[ToddG]

I find slingshotting with a severe almost horizontal level of the pistol right in front of me to be fast, dependable, easy to do at both extension and close in, and maximizes muscle over coordination.

I have seen so many people fail to rack a slide completely doing the overhand that it's completely lost on me. If it's all you can do, or if it works for you, hey, I have no criticism. But as a default the slingshot works more reliably in my experience and over a wider range of problem guns (M9, 3rd gen Smiths).

I demur to nyeti's point about trying to slingshot if your thumb is missing. Luckily, I think most of us have contingency plans for loading and un-stopping our guns if we're reduced to a less than optimal number of hands or digits.

[Dagga Boy]

I demur to nyeti's point about trying to slingshot if your thumb is missing. Luckily, I think most of us have contingency plans for loading and un-stopping our guns if we're reduced to a less than optimal number of hands or digits.

Actually, I don't think this is true. On this forum and its VERY minority membership, yes some thought has probably gone into this. As a whole amongst shooters....not so much.

This is one of those "things" that is a difference between shooters with different performance goals. Injury performance is one of those things that is more important to some than others. Most folks don't go to work everyday with it in their head that "I have a good chance of getting hurt or killed tonight, and if I am not totally switched on that chance gets very good". That was my world, and I did suffer a lot of injuries. It is not the world of most people. Different priorities.

Another good example is Pat Rogers classes. Pat places heavy emphasis on very structured Tactics, Techniques and Procedures. Those techniques and procedures are very heavily based on performance in "no light" and very tactile. I saw the benefit of this when I took an Advanced Low Light Carbine class with EAG running a Colt 901 (note-3 days with a .308 in a 5.56 class sucks). I was almost stunned at how easy and problem free my performance was in working in total darkness (rural Texas range with no moon). That was when "the light went on" as to "why" it was so important to do things the way Pat recommended every time and to build in the sub conscious skill set. These were handling, administrative as well as tactical loading and un-loading, and other skill sets. This is the stuff that becomes very important when things go bad............often times, things will not go according to plan.

Again, everybody has different goals and what they are training for and it is irrelevant what is "important to me".