Thumbs Forward Grip - Finger Alignment?

[The Dreaming Tree]

My brother-in-law and I decided to rewatch Magpul's Art of the Dynamic Handgun for the first time in a year. It's a nice way to freshen up on some familiar advice, as well as pay attention to finer details previously missed. I found one, and I can't wrap my brain around it:

On a modern "thumbs forward grip", where do you align the fingers of your non-dominant/weak/support hand?

Travis Haley - left pinky sits below the right pinky, with a lower hand positioning and the thumb sitting a bit farther back on the frame.

PROS: No trigger guard blockage, quicker to acquire.
CONS: Less firm non-dominant/weak/support grip.

Chris Costa - left pinky sits above the right pinky, with a higher hand positioning and the thumb sitting farther forward on the frame.

PROS: More contact and strong non-dominant/weak/support grip.
CONS: Non-dominant/weak/support index finger partially blocks trigger guard, slower to acquire.

Now, both of these can be trained around and made equal in all parts except physical location. But... which is right? I really like Costa's more aggressive thumbs way-the-kitten forward grip, but I need to learn how to ensure my left index finger isn't blocking the trigger.

Thoughts?

LINK TO IMGUR ALBUM WITH HALEY, COSTA, AND MULTIPLE ANGLES OF ME.

[JMS]

CONS: Non-dominant/weak/support index finger partially blocks trigger guard, slower to acquire.

Subjective. MAY block the trigger guard. MAY be slower. The heel of the support hand thumb MAY impinge upon the slide release, and that MAY be eliminated or at least mitigated by pushing the support-hand thumb downward toward the index finger.... Saying it WILL (for any of your PRO/CON lists) is akin to creating a self-fulfilling prophesy, so make sure you're looking at it from the perspective of asking yourself questions, not making statements.

A good look at it the latter method:

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.p...AR-01-Nov-2012

But... which is right?

This is surely not what you're looking for, but the answer is "Both, and neither." For example, saying that the former will produce a less-dominant grip isn't a valid stand-alone statement. Your hands aren't my hands, and vice-versa: size (length/breadth/girth of fingers) of hand, shape of hand, grip strength, type of gun...all of this will have an impact in regard to how and why you establish your grip thisly or thusly.

Example: The way I grip a Glock or M&P differs from the means by which I may grip a Sig or HK, simply on the basis of the differences in the placement and shape of the control features. Read any of Todd's handgun endurance tests, and you'll see him speak to grip tweaks for those reasons and others that have more to do with raw performance enhancement.

Sounds like a great excuse to SHOOT, and find out which of them, or what blend of the two, work for you.

[Jay Cunningham]

Are the thumbs the important thing... or is it the wrists?

[The Dreaming Tree]

Subjective. MAY block the trigger guard. MAY be slower. The heel of the support hand thumb MAY impinge upon the slide release, and that MAY be eliminated or at least mitigated by pushing the support-hand thumb downward toward the index finger.... Saying it WILL (for any of your PRO/CON lists) is akin to creating a self-fulfilling prophesy, so make sure you're looking at it from the perspective of asking yourself questions, not making statements.

Of course. I meant in my current experience. I've yet to do anything but dry fire with the higher/forward grip (Costa-style?), and I'm experiencing this. As you stated, I agree: it's a simple as training away those bad habits before they occur.

A good look at it the latter method:

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.p...AR-01-Nov-2012

This is surely not what you're looking for, but the answer is "Both, and neither." For example, saying that the former will produce a less-dominant grip isn't a valid stand-alone statement. Your hands aren't my hands, and vice-versa: size (length/breadth/girth of fingers) of hand, shape of hand, grip strength, type of gun...all of this will have an impact in regard to how and why you establish your grip thisly or thusly.

Example: The way I grip a Glock or M&P differs from the means by which I may grip a Sig or HK, simply on the basis of the differences in the placement and shape of the control features. Read any of Todd's handgun endurance tests, and you'll see him speak to grip tweaks for those reasons and others that have more to do with raw performance enhancement.

Sounds like a great excuse to SHOOT, and find out which of them, or what blend of the two, work for you.

Wait, what?!? I have to shoot more?!? Oh, no... how unfortunate. (Now, to show my wife this.)

Thanks for the reply. I understand there is no "right" way to hold a gun, I was just wondering if one was considered unacceptable for some reason. Looks like range-time it is!

[The Dreaming Tree]

Are the thumbs the important thing... or is it the wrists?

I'm not concerned about the thumbs, but the hands. Wrists follow suit with a proper hold (teacupping doesn't allow for strong wrists).

[Drang]

Are the thumbs the important thing... or is it the wrists?

In the immortal words of Cord* to the Blind Man, is not the important thing that the apple is eaten?



*Played by Jeff Cooper, but not THE Jeff Cooper, pbuh.

[hufnagel]

I can't see any reason why either would be more right or more wrong than the other. I always thought everyone has to tweak their grip slightly depending on the person and the gun involved. I won't ride my weak thumb that high because it can cause the like not to lock back on empty on my P30's or P2000SK's (base of my thumb rides the slide release lever.) So I choose to train my thumb lower (either just below the rail line, or pressed all the way down to the bottom of the trigger guard.) I actually kind of like the latter as my trigger finger will rub lightly against my weak thumb when it's positioned just right... sort of a way of reinforcing the position of my trigger finger being correct.

If you can shoot as fast as you want, as accurately as you want, then does it really matter how your grip is?

[John Hearne]

I have been told that if you place the support side fingers on top of the firing side fingers, it helps lock up the tendons in the firing side fingers and can help mitigate milking....

[The Dreaming Tree]

I have been told that if you place the support side fingers on top of the firing side fingers, it helps lock up the tendons in the firing side fingers and can help mitigate milking....

I have to admit... I've never heard of "milking". Can you elaborate?

[JV_]

It's when you tighten/change your grip as you work the trigger.