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Thread: Multiple Impact Bullets???

  1. #1
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    Multiple Impact Bullets???

    Look here first:

    http://www.mibullet.com/

    I contacted them via email, and wrote the following...

    Todd and Jaye,
    I am writing to you about your ammunition and how it should be tested.
    I am 55 years old and have been involved in shooting since I was 10. I specifically became interested in wound ballistics at about age 20 (in the late 1970's), and eventually got in contact with Dr. Martin L. Fackler M.D. F.A.C.S. who was head of the Letterman Army Institute of Research's Wound Ballistics Laboratory. Fackler is well known worldwide for his contributions and knowledge of wound ballistics, ballistic gelatin development and surgical techniques as they relate to gunshot wounds. Fackler went on to start the International Wound Ballistics Association (IWBA), along with others who were of similar caliber (no pun intended) and I was privileged to become a member in 1993. I authored three ammunition testing reports in our international journal: Wound Ballistics Review (WBR), and assisted in a gelatin problem, and was also asked to speak at one of the IWBA Conferences. I only say these things about myself to try to show you that I have some knowledge of what I am telling you.
    That said, I am concerned about the actual effectiveness of your ammunition in real life shootings. The concept seems possible to some, but from a more experienced view, it looks impossible. Shooting paper targets and watermelons is not the same as shooting people. In fact, shooting ballistic gelatin (properly prepared and calibrated) is not going to show what your ammunition will do to people, either.
    Although you don't give weights for the components that make up your projectiles, I would expect them to be relatively lightweight, as loads similar to these typically are. The center projectile is likely the heaviest component, and it will likely not go very deep, especially when connected to the outer components via Kevlar threads. The threads themselves would not cut well into skin because skin can be rather tough to cut, and the threads would be parallel in relation to the skin surface on impact. The outer components would not likely impact in such a way as to cause more than fairly superficial gouges when they do hit based on their small size, likely light weights and probably uncertain angles of attack.
    The only way you would likely be able to get an honest measure of what this ammunition would do without shooting a living person or animal would be to shoot a properly prepared and calibrated gelatin block that has been covered with fresh pig skin. This is an accepted experimental process that simulates a person and the skin that covers a person.
    Human skin is actually quite tough and stretchy, and takes about 300 feet per second velocity just to penetrate through by a bullet. Bare gelatin works well with typical bullet designs, which your design is not. Your design would likely penetrate better in bare gelatin than gelatin with pig skin, but the latter way would yield more accurate data.
    If you decided to get involved with this sort of testing, you should be prepared that you likely would need to tweak your design at the very least to get optimum effect. Realize also that in wound ballistics it is generally held that 12 to 16 inches of penetration is the optimum range, with about 10 to 12 inches being consider minimum to assure reaching the vital organs, blood vessels and structures. Let me know if I can be of help, including some basic wound ballistics knowledge that the average consumer is unaware of.
    As this design is currently, I would doubt that any law enforcement, military of other professional organizations will take it seriously... but many civilians who never got past gun magazines will line up due to what they are think they are seeing on your 'interesting' videos.
    Respectfully,
    Ron.
    Last edited by Glock17JHP; 01-13-2014 at 03:15 PM. Reason: added link

  2. #2
    Site Supporter Tamara's Avatar
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    We discussed them some already in this thread.
    Books. Bikes. Boomsticks.

    I can explain it to you. I can’t understand it for you.

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    Tamara,
    Thank you for letting me know. Do you know if anyone besides me has tried to interact with them? I don't really expect a reply, and actually don't really want one now that I have had a day to think about it more.
    -Ron.

  4. #4
    Site Supporter Tamara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock17JHP View Post
    Do you know if anyone besides me has tried to interact with them?
    Not to my knowledge. (Your letter above was almost superhumanly diplomatic)
    Books. Bikes. Boomsticks.

    I can explain it to you. I can’t understand it for you.

  5. #5
    Member jkurtz7's Avatar
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    I'd be very interested in their rely to your email, if you actually get one.

    Looking at the front page of their site, I see the video still of a masked gunman, who incidentally isn't even holding a real firearm, it's a damn pellet pistol. That alone should tell anyone with half a brain that these people are peddling crap.
    Last edited by jkurtz7; 01-15-2014 at 04:08 PM.

  6. #6
    Site Supporter DocGKR's Avatar
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    As I have noted previously:

    How deep do these the projectiles penetrate in both unobstructed shots and after first hitting an intermediate barrier?

    What happens with a peripheral hit against an opponent?

    What is the accuracy like at 10, 100, 300, and 600 meters?

    If a precision shot has to be made, perhaps into the eye socket of an opponent, like in a hostage situation or on a partially obscured threat standing behind innocents, what is the risk to a hostage or bystander who is in very close proximity to the target?

    Over the years we have tested similar ammunition concepts using multiple projectiles, including loads with the projectiles tethered together--all have been abject failures when tested using standardized methodology like the FBI ammunition test protocol.

    The designers simply had to do a bit of historical research to realize the idea had been tried before and found wanting; that they chose not to exercise any due diligence is telling...
    Facts matter...Feelings Can Lie

  7. #7
    Site Supporter hufnagel's Avatar
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    but it looks really cool when it shreds paper!

    wonder how well it'll dice an onion.
    Rules to live by: 1. Eat meat, 2. Shoot guns, 3. Fire, 4. Gasoline, 5. Make juniors
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  8. #8
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    Tamara, thank you... I try to be nice...

    I did actually get a reply... they sounded curious. I apologize that I did not archive the reply. I referred them to Doc's sticky on wound ballistics basics, and got a reply that perhaps they needed to do some reading, or something similar. I told them to email me back if I can be of further assistance, or direct them to someone more knowledgeable who can help them if they need that. That was about a week ago, no further replies. They might even be lurking on this forum... you never know.

  9. #9
    Member NETim's Avatar
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    Multiple Abject Failure Bullets
    In a sort of ghastly simplicity we remove the organ and demand the function. We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honour and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and bid the geldings be fruitful.” ― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man

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