Question:Why IDPA/USPSA?

[cclaxton]

IDPA tries to pretend its training and makes the courses of fire easier and makes you wear a concealment garment and limits the guns you can use more.

IDPA stages don't allow the shooter much latitude in how they are shot. Its pretty much shoot here then move here then shoot some more.

USPSA does not limit the stage design as much and most stages are shoot them as you see them and give the shooter a lot of options on how to solve a problem. Lots more challenging stages and higher round counts.

I started with IDPA and then shot both for a long time. Boycotting IDPA now because of stupid rule changes recently.

Pat

Alaskapopo has one opinion, perhaps a bit colored by his dissatisfaction with the rules changes. Full disclosure: I am a Certified IDPA SO.
Here is another:
IDPA
- Is more focused on concealed carry skills;
- Requires concealment because of concealed carry focused, but not during some courses of fire, depending;
- Limits shooters to guns that are more affordable and practical and the average Jane/Joe can buy, thus limiting "OPEN" and highly customized types of guns;
- Does provide great latitude in how to shoot the COF, but because of COVER penalties and SHOOTING PRIORITY penalties gives you an incentive to shoot by "slicing the pie" or near to far. You can shoot it however you want...you just live with the penalties;
- IDPA does not pretend to be training. It does allow you to practice your skills using cover and concealment and is more tactical than USPSA, but NOT tactical training, and, mainly because of safety issues, NOT a true tactical COF.
- One of the main rules that changed is that all reloads must be flat-footed and behind cover if cover is available.

USPSA
- Is more focused on pure competition and incorporates few tactical features;
- Does not require concealment;
- Provides divisions that allow for any types of handguns that are generally safe and ranges will allow;
- Does provide great latitude in how to shoot the COF, but has no cover or shooting priority penalties (You can choose to shoot them that way if you wish),
- Does allow lots of flexibility in where to stow extra mags, how to holster, more rounds in a magazine, etc.

BOTH IDPA AND USPSA
- Due to COF safety concerns restrict how close you can be when shooting steel;
- Due to COF safety concerns restrict going back to targets you have already engaged if doing so would create a muzzle violation or safety hazard;
- Have muzzle and finger restrictions while engaging targets, and may restrict full freedom of movement or moving with finger inside trigger guard;

[BCL]

IDPA
...
- Limits shooters to guns that are more affordable and practical and the average Jane/Joe can buy, thus limiting "OPEN" and highly customized types of guns;
...

I think this point is highly division dependent. Someone could spend roughly the same amount of money getting into USPSA Production and IDPA SSP and be just as competitive. There is no IDPA equivalent to USPSA's Open Division, but there is to Production (SSP), Limited (ESP), and Single Stack (CDP).

It is well within reason that someone could be as competitive with a $600 Glock (Vogel) as someone else with a $1500 Shadow (Mink).

[NETim]

Design a stage scoring any C/D or -1/-3 as a miss. Bring earpro...for the whining.

OMG!

[PPGMD]

Imagine that USPSA and IDPA's goal is the same, to make a painting of a tree.

IDPA is like paint by numbers.

USPSA is like someone handing you a blank canvas.

IDPA you get a course description and the rare choice you might have is to shoot the left side first, or the right side.

USPSA is much more free, at a recent USPSA match one stage had a half a dozen ways to shoot it for production. Ranging from playing it safe to running at the very edge (ie no room for make up shots), and then the normal left side vs right side.

[Alaskapopo]

Alaskapopo has one opinion, perhaps a bit colored by his dissatisfaction with the rules changes. Full disclosure: I am a Certified IDPA SO.
Here is another:
IDPA
- Is more focused on concealed carry skills;
- Requires concealment because of concealed carry focused, but not during some courses of fire, depending;
- Limits shooters to guns that are more affordable and practical and the average Jane/Joe can buy, thus limiting "OPEN" and highly customized types of guns;
- Does provide great latitude in how to shoot the COF, but because of COVER penalties and SHOOTING PRIORITY penalties gives you an incentive to shoot by "slicing the pie" or near to far. You can shoot it however you want...you just live with the penalties;
- IDPA does not pretend to be training. It does allow you to practice your skills using cover and concealment and is more tactical than USPSA, but NOT tactical training, and, mainly because of safety issues, NOT a true tactical COF.
- One of the main rules that changed is that all reloads must be flat-footed and behind cover if cover is available.

USPSA
- Is more focused on pure competition and incorporates few tactical features;
- Does not require concealment;
- Provides divisions that allow for any types of handguns that are generally safe and ranges will allow;
- Does provide great latitude in how to shoot the COF, but has no cover or shooting priority penalties (You can choose to shoot them that way if you wish),
- Does allow lots of flexibility in where to stow extra mags, how to holster, more rounds in a magazine, etc.

BOTH IDPA AND USPSA
- Due to COF safety concerns restrict how close you can be when shooting steel;
- Due to COF safety concerns restrict going back to targets you have already engaged if doing so would create a muzzle violation or safety hazard;
- Have muzzle and finger restrictions while engaging targets, and may restrict full freedom of movement or moving with finger inside trigger guard;

With respect USPSA does not cost much more to shoot if you stick to production or single stack all you need is a few more magazines and more ammo for more shooting. Also if you want to make people use "cover" in USPSA you just set up fault lines. Also IDPA itself does not pretend to be training a lot of folks who shoot it claim to be tactical experts based solely on shooting the game. I am sure you have met these folks. In the end IDPA is another option and if it gets someone shooting thats great. Don't let my bias slow you down. One thing I do like about IDPA is the simple scoring that places a bit more emphasis on accuracy.
Pat

[PPGMD]

Also if you want to make people use "cover" in USPSA you just set up fault lines.

I've had more hard shots around cover in USPSA due to fault lines than I've ever had in IDPA.

[Alaskapopo]

I've had more hard shots around cover in USPSA due to fault lines than I've ever had in IDPA.

I agree and in IDPA your not really using cover correctly anyway. This is what I see shooters do, run up to the object labeled as cover lean out like a jack in the box and shoot from outside to the inside target. There is not holding back from cover and slowly slicing the pie so only one target becomes visible at a time. The reason of course is this is slower and you will lose the match. There needs to be a distinction between training and competition. I like both and both in their place not mixed.
Pat

[Wendell]

A computer-generated teddybear-actor video entitled "IDPA" is worth, like, a million words.



IMO

[littlejerry]

I agree and in IDPA your not really using cover correctly anyway. This is what I see shooters do, run up to the object labeled as cover lean out like a jack in the box and shoot from outside to the inside target. There is not holding back from cover and slowly slicing the pie so only one target becomes visible at a time. The reason of course is this is slower and you will lose the match. There needs to be a distinction between training and competition. I like both and both in their place not mixed.
Pat

I agree 100%. The "must shoot from cover" rule is a joke in practice at the clubs I've shot at. There is no slicing the pie, its lean out as far as you can and engage the targets. Also, "slicing the pie" may not always be the best thing to do in a real situation- shooting on the move may be a more sound decision, but thats a no-no in the world of IDPA. People also consistently crowd cover in IDPA. I've even gotten dinged for not practically dry-humping a barricade before.

The "tactical order" of engagement can be ridiculous at times. If I lean out and see a full silhouette 15 yards away, and half a silhouette 5 yards away, which should I shoot? Is there a correct answer? What if my sights just happen to be aligned on the "incorrect" target when I lean out? Would it be "more tactical" for me to break my aim on a threat, engage another target, and then come back to it?

The biggest problem I have with IDPA is that it claims to be more tactical/realistic/carry/self-defense focused and yet the actual rules(or their implementation/interpretation) are completely contradictory with actual good practice techniques.

At the end of the day the actual shooting and fundamentals are held to a higher standard in USPSA. IDPA focuses more on procedure and choreography.

[Alaskapopo]

I agree 100%. The "must shoot from cover" rule is a joke in practice at the clubs I've shot at. There is no slicing the pie, its lean out as far as you can and engage the targets. Also, "slicing the pie" may not always be the best thing to do in a real situation- shooting on the move may be a more sound decision, but thats a no-no in the world of IDPA. People also consistently crowd cover in IDPA. I've even gotten dinged for not practically dry-humping a barricade before.

The "tactical order" of engagement can be ridiculous at times. If I lean out and see a full silhouette 15 yards away, and half a silhouette 5 yards away, which should I shoot? Is there a correct answer? What if my sights just happen to be aligned on the "incorrect" target when I lean out? Would it be "more tactical" for me to break my aim on a threat, engage another target, and then come back to it?

The biggest problem I have with IDPA is that it claims to be more tactical/realistic/carry/self-defense focused and yet the actual rules(or their implementation/interpretation) are completely contradictory with actual good practice techniques.

At the end of the day the actual shooting and fundamentals are held to a higher standard in USPSA. IDPA focuses more on procedure and choreography.

Another reason why I am dropping IDPA off of my matches to shoot is its too easy to get the game your playing confused and eat a bunch of penalties because your used to shooting USPSA or three gun. IDPA is harder on the shooter as far as having to remember the rules like tactical order like you mentioned.
Pat