What do you guys think of this Mike Lamb 'fighting shotgun' video??

[BaiHu]

I've heard a lot about the shotgun vs AR argument for HD and I just can't wrap my head around the use of a shotgun for HD, but then again, I don't even own one-mainly b/c I'm anti Joe Biden. Well, that and it even seems like Lamb and his guys on this video have an issue cycling through rounds quickly (after 2 rounds and it seems like they have issues). Is that b/c I don't know what I'm seeing/talking about? What if there are multiple attackers? Even Lamb mentions the 'psychological' aspect as not being something he trains people on, b/c it's setting them up for failure.

So....fill me in folks.

[Nephrology]

The whole 0-150 yards thing seems incredibly generous to me.

Within 10 yards or less, I definitely want a handgun or a SBR/Subgun . Maneuverability and the ability to avoid takeaways is paramount in such close quarters.

75 yards or more I want a carbine. They cycle faster, recoil less, and simply put their ammo is more consistent (i.e. less drop). Additionally, if you are pressing a shotgun into service at 75yd, it seems like you have to have a tube full of slugs ready to go. Transitioning to slugs is a lot more complex than simply putting .223 on the same target, whether it be 25 or 150 yards.

Buckshot is definitely devastating, but I think that the shotgun is only as versatile as the way it is set up. I don't want a tube full of slugs if I am defending my home, and I don't want a tube full of buck if I am facing threats at 150yd. I certainly don't want to have to rapidly switch between the two as the situation dictates. .223 carbines are far more versatile and offer you immediate flexibility between 10 and 200 yards.

Finally, let's not forget capacity. 7 rounds goes really quickly, and reloading a tube fed gun is just not as fast as swapping mags on an AR or an AK. I think he really oversells it. The shotgun has some uses but these days they are definitely eclipsed by the carbine, from my amateur perspective. I own an 870 set up for HD - it's nice to have, especially as I don't own a carbine, but I certainly have no illusions about its strengths and its weaknesses.

[David Armstrong]

Well, first I'll admit I prefer the shotgun over the AR for home defense. Having said that I would disagree with Mike about it being the choice out to 150 yards. I can use it at that distance but it would not be my first choice. I don't know how quickly you want to cycle the gun, but fast repeat follow-up shots aren't difficult once you learn how to run the gun. Multiple attackers shouldn't be a problem either. At a good shotgun class you'll see multiple target engagement taught and it is not difficult to engage targets and keep the gun running. Regarding psychological stops, note that he says he doesn't teach it BUT that he has also seen it happen often enough that he presents the idea as a plus for the shotgun.

[TR675]

I think a well-thought out and equipped shotgun has a lot to recommend it in the HD environment.

Not least among its potential advantages are very real biases that much of society has against "assault rifles". Research by Glenn Meyer at Trinity University supports this position: people are more likely to judge self-defenders negatively when they use unpopular weapons. I have to laugh at people who repeat, ad nauseum, that a "good shoot" is a "good shoot" and that their use of a tricked-out suppressor-equipped SBR will have no impact on how their case is handled or viewed by a trier of fact. While the type of weapon used in a self-defense shooting should not make a difference in a black and white case, very often self-defense cases are not black and white. I personally know of two cases where self-defense was an issue here in Texas where the prosecution cited the defendant's use of an assault rifle as evidence of bad intent.

For me personally, by virtue of my home's construction I am not worried about excess penetration through walls, , the longest shot I will ever have to take is maybe 20 yards, there is essentially one entry to the residence and path through it, I have multiple "funnels" that allow me to effectively barricade myself and my special lady friend in a number of places, and there is very little reason for me to go outside if I'm worried about bad guys. Given these circumstances, I feel quite comfortable with a shotgun backed up with a handgun for HD.

Anything outside of the house is a different story, but if I think there's trouble brewing I'm not going out there.

[BaiHu]

Did you guys see the video?? Some parts, to me, look almost like trigger freeze (or cycling slower then they can pull the trigger) and the cut/edit to the next frame. I'm willing to admit I don't know what I'm looking at, but it seemed to happen at least 3 times from my recollection.

Other than that, I guess it's 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. Protect yourself with what you have, no?

[Mitchell, Esq.]

Last year I did a shotgun 1 day class in January. In May I used a shotgun in a FOF "kill house".

Doing drills I was find, in the FOF situation in which I was trying to keep from getting shot, ambushed or otherwise screwed, I ended up abandoning the shotgun and using my pistol because I kept forgetting to rack the gun.

If you want a shotgun for home defense, I think it better be semi-auto.

[BaiHu]

If you want a shotgun for home defense, I think it better be semi-auto.

An odd omission that I was surprised he didn't bring up. If I had to have a shotty, then I'd go semi-auto as well.

[Tom Givens]

The advantage of the buckshot loaded shotgun at home defense distances is decisive power. I have looked at a lot of shootings over the years. Once in a great while I find one where a second load of buckshot was needed on target. I have never found one where more than 2 rounds were needed on one BG.

The capacity of the AR is an illusion. For CQB purposes, most trainers recommend a 4-7 round string per target engagement. A 30 round magazine is best loaded with 28, for reliability and insertion with a closed bolt. There are 4 7 round strings in a 28 round magazine. So, at house ranges the AR is a 4 serving weapon. My shotgun holds 6 servings.

At its maximum ordinate, 00 buck will only travel 800-900 yards, where a .223 bullet will travel 2,850 yards. So, buck only has 1/3 the downrange danger zone of carbine ammo, which might be important in an urban setting. Also, TR is correct on the “perception” problem of the AR, which should not be a problem, but just might be.

Finally, it’s really hard to imagine why a home defender would need 150 yard capability. Military application and civil home defense are not the same things. “Cool” factor should not be a determining factor in weapon selection.

[jetfire]

One big reason for the AR over the shotgun is reduced danger of interior wall over-penetration.

That being said, a 1300 sleeps next to me, not a rifle.

[45dotACP]

Personally, having a lot more experience shooting a shotgun in trap, skeet and other assorted games, I'd feel more comfortable using one than I would using an AR. That said, I'd choose a semi auto or probably even a double barrel shotgun sooner than a pump (because I don't shoot pumps enough to cycle every time). If you don't own a shotgun, I'd recommend getting one. They are a serious amount of fun for the games you play with them and skeet is one of my favorite shooting sports.