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Thread: Bill Drill times ?

  1. #51
    here is my best time for today. I had quite a few in the 2.6x range. HK USP expert 9mm, bladetech, no cover.

    Shot # Elapsed Time Split Time
    1 1.36 1.36
    2 1.61 0.24
    3 1.85 0.24
    4 2.02 0.17
    5 2.32 0.30
    6 2.55 0.23

  2. #52
    Leopard Printer Mr_White's Avatar
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    Feb 2011
    Gaming In The Streets
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    I suspect some of both. Weight and length of the trigger. Weight and thickness of the pistol.

    It has been absolutely evident in my experience going from the Glock to the Sig, back to the Glock, and then to the Beretta in the last two years.

    Listen to Stoeger's podcast, and hear it from him.
    I heard that podcast and had assumed it was because of the light weight of the gun in comparison to his current Stock 2. That was an assumption though.
    Technical excellence supports tactical preparedness
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  3. #53
    Site Supporter JHC's Avatar
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    Feb 2011
    North Georgia
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    I consider one shot drills vanity drills, because the times can be fantastic when you can get away with a "one shot" grip!

    I know you shoot the Glock, and think its trigger is challenging to shoot fast --

    I doubt it is aging, as we are more or less the same age, and my splits are getting faster. I do believe some people are genetically wired to be faster. I think shooting enough Bill drills to be relaxed helps.
    Some combat oriented trainer put it in my head one might need that shot. IDK.

    But I don't think the Glock trigger is challenging to shoot fast. Quite the contrary.
    "I’ve come to realize manual transmission cars and 1911s have something in common—a person who steals one probably won’t know how to use it." - Hideeho

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Vienna, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    Some combat oriented trainer put it in my head one might need that shot. IDK.

    But I don't think the Glock trigger is challenging to shoot fast. Quite the contrary.
    Where the Glock trigger really falls apart (for me at least,) is on distant or low-percentage targets under time pressure. It is very difficult to work a Glock trigger fast, without inducing some sight movement.

    On close, wide-open targets, I just slap the trigger like it owes me drug money. Yeah, I get some sight movement, but not enough to move me out of the A zone.

    My blog: The Way of the Multigun

  5. #55
    Site Supporter JodyH's Avatar
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    Feb 2011
    New Mexico
    Just prior to my surgery I was right at 2.5 on Bill Drills with my P2000SK from a leather AIWB concealed.
    Draw around 1.25, splits around .21-.23
    With my P2000 from a faster holster (still AIWB concealed) I'm closer to 2.25
    "For a moment he felt good about this. A moment or two later he felt bad about feeling good about it. Then he felt good about feeling bad about feeling good about it and, satisfied, drove on into the night."
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  6. #56
    Since this is my drill I thought I'd chime in.............

    What it is? Leroy has it basically right on pg 3, but I'd like to add to his description.

    History of the Bill drill:

    Back in the dark ages when I was a serious IPSC competitor (once on the gold team and twice on the silver team) Robbie and Brian shot WC pistols and we all got together quite a bit for serious practice sessions. On one of these sessions I suggested a drill to work on front sight tracking during recoil and Robbie being the "funny man" he usually is coined the term "Bill Drill" and it has obviously stuck. Keep in mind this was the early 80s and we were all top level IPSC competitors shooting state of the art race guns/gear for the day. At the time we were all shooting .38 super comp guns out of Safariland holsters (we were all on team Safariland).

    What it is:

    1 IPSC Item target 7yds downrange
    Start position: Facing target, surrender hand position
    Drill: Draw and fire 6 shots
    Object: All "A" hits in under 2 seconds, if you get a shot out of the A zone the run doesn't count

    Remember this was top shooters using race gear. I personally can't do a sub 2 second run with a real carry gun from a honest carry holster, more like 2.6 sec would be the norm.

    OK so much for the history lesson

    We've been doing a new Bill Drill these days, I call it the Bill Drill II

    Gear: Honest carry gun and holster shooting standard power ammo for the caliber
    Target: IDPA, 8" 5 zone
    Scoring: Standard IDPA Limited Vickers, - .5 seconds per point down
    Round count: 15
    Start position: Facing target, hands naturally at your sides
    String 1 - Draw and fire 1 shot
    String 2 - Draw and fire 2 shots
    String 3 - Draw and fire 3 shots
    String 4 - Draw and fire 4 shots
    String 4 - Draw and fire 5 shots

    On a decent day I normally shoot sub 10 seconds from the holster and sub 8 seconds from a ready position. I've got a screwed up right shoulder and doing lots of draws tends to cause me to pay for it later, so I do a lot of shooting from the ready. It's not like I'm going to forget how to draw the gun if I don't do a lot of draws after 40 years of pistol shooting!!!

    I've done considerably better than 10sec/8sec on really good days after a warm-up and shooting a full size PX4 (easiest gun for me do do multiple shots with). On the other hand, obviously after a 2 week layoff with no warm-up I can't even do a 10 sec run right off the bat, but 10sec/8sec are my personal benchmarks.

  7. #57
    We are diminished
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    Feb 2011
    Bill, I'd love to post this to my Drills section on, any objection?

  8. #58

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Quote Originally Posted by caleb View Post
    Like Todd said, sub-2.00 seconds is all that matters. When you worry less about the numbers and more about the shooting, the numbers end up mattering less.
    That's good to know!

    I use to be good with a heavy 3inch loaded with FBI load and even faster with the 148WC. (carried AIWB) Sometimes I wonder if a pistol is worth the extra bullets.

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Have to define expert, but I have heard a USPSA master class time, presumably open carry, is 2.0. Think Gabe told me 1.53 is Stoeger's PR, as a data point.

    My formula for 2.0 is a .90 draw and five, .22 splits.
    Just saw someone get a 1.39 with a stock glock trigger....Ridiculous fast

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