Manny Bragg and trigger control

[Mr_White]

I tried the trigger control experiment that GJM suggested. I did one shot draws to an 8" circle at 7 yards, first attempting to stroke all the way through the trigger in one continuous motion ('slap', in this discussion, and the way I would normally address this particular size/distance of target), then doing 'prep/pull', where I get past the slack and then pull through the pressure wall in its own distinct motion, then 'prep/roll', where I get past the slack and then pull through the pressure wall more carefully.

I only did a few repetitions of each, but as might be predicted, the times ascended as I was progressively more careful on the trigger.

"Slap" saw an average of .81, 'prep/pull' an average of .91, and 'prep/roll' an average of .96.

Doing this, I could see just how much I have become semi-conscious/unconscious in my trigger control, and how much I have been devoting my mind to the visual parts of shooting for the last couple of years; I had to really try in order to pay any conscious attention to the trigger press, and I found it a little distracting trying to do so.

I also shot a few repetitions of an abbreviated version of the Accelerator drill - two shots each at USPSA lower A zones at 7, 15, and 25 yards, all shot near to far. I found myself doing continuous trigger strokes ('slap') on the 7 yard target, and simply by being more careful on the 15 and 25 yard targets, going to what could be described as 'prep/pull' and 'prep/roll' respectively.

It is a very interesting exploration. I think there is a lot lost in the translation of the idea from one mind to another. If you asked me a week ago how I pressed the trigger, I would have simply said 'with continuously increasing pressure.' And I'm not trying to get away from that concept. But I think I can now see how the descriptions under discussion could be used to describe what I do. This discussion is not changing how I work the trigger. It is making me introspect, examine ideas of trigger control, and pay more attention to what I am doing with the trigger. Surely that can only be good.

[Mr_White]

Here's a video of a couple runs of the halved Accelerator:

[GJM]

Dave/Gabe, the point of Manny's technique is just to match the proper trigger manipulation to the appropriate target. If you do that perfectly, at a subconscious level, it probably doesn't add much. For me, I primarily see this as a method of shooting more accurately, not faster, since my default is more to slap and prep/pull than prep/roll and prep/squeeze.

It would be an interesting new thread to discuss different ways of working the trigger, and this has certainly raised my awareness of different methods.

Interestingly, my wife figured out, as a result of this, she has prep/roll but never really used prep/pull. That probably explains why she is slower than me on some targets I was using prep/pull. As a direct result of this, she had a personal best on the plate rack down with Manny, as she consciously used prep/pull instead of prep/roll.

I also think this is very pistol specific. For example, I find a Gen 3 Glock is better at prep/pull than a G4, as the trigger breaks shorter, where the G4 lends itself to prep/roll sooner, because of the rolly nature of its trigger. Gabe, I think you figured that out on your recent first Gen 4 session. It makes me want to shoot a Gen 3 differently than a Gen 4. I also think this focus on different trigger manipulations will make it easier for me to transit to a different platform (always a plus ), as I can be more conscious/objective about trigger manipulation, as opposed to just learning a new trigger slowly and subconsciously.

I still see vision, trigger and grip as the big three, but I am definitely paying closer attention to the trigger part.

[Mr_White]

I am definitely paying closer attention to the trigger part.

You know, whatever the technique and conceptual trappings we choose, I think it's really all about the bolded part of your post. The excellence is found in the struggle.

[JV_]

I spent a few hours at the range on Friday and payed a lot of attention to how I pull the trigger. I didn't focus on doing each of the variations described this in thread, I was just documenting what's worked for me and what I do naturally.

I don't really differentiate between roll and press. I either don't understand what's being described, or the difference is so miniscule that it's not something I worry about.

If I remove what happens when I draw the gun and get off the first shot, and focus on shots when the gun is already drawn, I discovered:

I slap the trigger for up close stuff, and I prep & pull for harder shots. The harder the shot, the slower I pull through the final part of the trigger motion (variable speed inside of one pull). From about 7Y-10Y, I use a slower smooth constant pull (the speed varies based on target size, but it's a constant speed for a given target size), without any real prep. I found that prepping in those distances made me go too fast on the prep and disturbed the sights more than I'd like, so a constant motion worked best. Beyond 10 Yards, I was slowing down enough that a prep worked.

This video summarizes a lot of what I've been doing:

[GJM]

I don't really differentiate between roll and press. I either don't understand what's being described, or the difference is so miniscule that it's not something I worry about.

If I remove what happens when I draw the gun and get off the first shot, and focus on shots when the gun is already drawn, I discovered:

I slap the trigger for up close stuff, and I prep & pull for harder shots. The harder the shot, the slower I pull through the final part of the trigger motion (variable speed inside of one pull). From about 7Y-10Y, I use a slower smooth constant pull (the speed varies based on target size, but it's a constant speed for a given target size), without any real prep. I found that prepping in those distances made me go too fast on the prep and disturbed the sights more than I'd like, so a constant motion worked best. Beyond 10 Yards, I was slowing down enough that a prep worked.

As Manny, Matt Mink, Origami and I have discussed, a difficult part of discussing trigger stuff, is we often use very different language to describe trigger stuff, often leading to confusion.

Some of this is also platform (and even individual pistol) specific -- not sure if you were shooting the G4 Glock or Sig? To me, the difference between prep/pull and prep/roll is that with prep/pull, after taking up the initial slack, I pull the trigger getting the shot "right then." The prep/roll is a mini surprise break, where the shot breaks more variably depending upon the speed of the roll. Both Origami, Dave W and I got data supporting the notion of prep/roll being slower than prep/pull and more variable.

[JV_]

not sure if you were shooting the G4 Glock or Sig?

Sig. I didn't time it because my practice time has been sparse these days, it's not really fair do that on my first range session in over a month.

with prep/pull, after taking up the initial slack, I pull the trigger getting the shot "right then."

So you're doing a prep with a slap at the end?

[GJM]

Sig. I didn't time it because my practice time has been sparse these days, it's not really fair do that on my first range session in over a month.

So you're doing a prep with a slap at the end?

Yes, it is a prep, with a gentle slap.

Depending upon the individual Sig trigger, roll may be less obvious/possible than with the Glock trigger.

[JV_]

FWIW: If I prep a Glock trigger, up to the wall, I have a much higher likelihood of jerking the trigger.

[ST911]

Interesting discussion. I was a bit twisted in the terminology and descriptors of the different presses, but I think I understand. I tried them in my range session last night. I found that I more or less chose each (as I understood them) by default according to the shooting math of time, target, distance.