Am I too picky? Gun Handling Standards

[_JD_]

I offered some constructive criticism to an instructor I've known for quite some time regarding their method of handling firearms.

The instructor was doing a demonstration (we were in private, not a class room setting with others etc.) About a holster and the instructor transferred the gun to their week hand and was grasping the gun by wrapping the hand around the frame and slide etc. Much like the student in Slavex 's video. Now to clarify this was a very brief period during a demonstration and the instructor was poiting out something about the holster with his strong hand but I made the suggestion that while doing demo work etc he should try to maintain a proper grip etc of the pistol as what he was demonstrating at that exact moment was "bad" gun handling and that they should model proper gun handling vs improper gun handling.


The instructor did not take kindly to this criticism and was pretty upset and called me an elitist gun snob...

And then asked for a "metric" to prove that their gun handling was bad. I've never seen another instructor handle a gun in that fashion. It looks sloppy and in my opinion unprofessional. I would not want to purposely show my students the wrong way to do things based on my intentional behavior.

Even with the gun unloaded and while not teaching about grip etc it still demonstrates a person in the know handling the firearms improperly and allows for students to copy bad handling.

The instructor asked me to show how it was unsafe or wrong and other than "your gripping the effing gun by the slide and frame!" I was coming up dry. I don't know how to make it any more clear other than your hand goes on the grippy thingy and not the slide thingy.

Is it "unsafe?" I'm inclined to say no as it doesn't break any of the 4 safety rules. Maybe rule 1 which was my closing point and the instructor agreed that he would not treat a gun like that if it eas loaded ...but that doesn't make it proper either.



That's about how he gripped the gun and I simply suggested that maybe you should grip the gun properly during demos etc.by using oh I don't know..

Maybe the grip of the gun?

So am I too uptight in thinking this is sloppy/lax handling?

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[Redhat]

Was he pointing it in an unsafe direction?

Was his finger on the trigger?

[_JD_]

Was he pointing it in an unsafe direction?

Was his finger on the trigger?

No to both.

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[Redhat]

No to both.

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As long as he has a secure grip, I personally see no problem with it...assuming of course it was unloaded. Consider that when teaching a class the instructor may have to hold the handgun/rifle/shotgun in ways other than a firing grip...when covering nomenclature or cycle of operations for example.

Were it me, I would have cleared the pistol and placed it on the table while discussing the holster. I don't like to have my attention divided.

[Joseph B.]

If the instructor/student is breaking the "rules" as in being unsafe, by all means call it out. But as a instructor, if I was being sharp shot on something like this, I would thank you for your opinion and carry-on with business (I.e. thanks for your personal opinion, we can compare certification and knowledge all day, but I don't have time for it).

When clearing and handing a firearm to another person, it should be with an open action, grip towards the receiving person, and where is the muzzle pointed? Normally at or near your feet. If I am disassembling a Glock or M9 are my hands "always on the grip" or am I gripping the pistol where it is safe and effective for me to disassemble it. What about people have big or smaller hands, what about people with disability in the hands, etc.

The point is, although you are correct that an instructor should always demonstrate correct and safe handling at all times, what is safe or correct can and normally is open to individual opinion. I have my opinions, and in my classes, I will enforce those opinions, however, they may go against another instructors opinions, etc. Generally what you have described as poor gun handling, IMO would only equate if the pistol was loaded on a firing line, or the muzzle was flagging someone or fingers were inside the trigger guard, etc. Although I might offer advice to a person to grip in a different manner, may instruct my students to use a different handling technique, I don't think I would have corrected a instructor for something as trivial as in how you explained it in your post. But I was not there and you have to come to your own conclusions. So yeah I would say, based on what you described, that you were a bit out of line.

My$.02

[_JD_]

Again, this was not in a class nor was this a paid session of any sorts. We were just going over some stuff together and and I just threw that out there for their consideration. We have a relationahip where we bounce ideas off each other etc. If there were a reason for gripping the gun as such for a particular demonstration where the grip was required, sure no problem....I offered my opinion and when asked why I thought it better to do it otherwise I get blasted as being a snob.

My deal on this is that if you wouldn't handle the gun like that when it's loaded and there's no reason to specifically grip the gun that way that you should grip it proper and deliberate. I told dude this and said something to the effect of hey if that's the way you want to do it that's fine more power to ya rock on with it but I'd do it this way and here's why.. I don't think that's being snobbish or elitist.

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[Lomshek]

My deal on this is that if you wouldn't handle the gun like that when it's loaded and there's no reason to specifically grip the gun that way that you should grip it proper and deliberate.

I agree 100% with that sentence.

Novices tend to grab guns every way but the correct way and proper grip always is the first thing I cover when teaching (after the four rules).

Grabbing the gun in unusual ways like shown above is always risking a finger finding the trigger inadvertently (even if the demonstrator did not). Everyone who teaches new shooters sees them use all four fingers to grab the gun below the trigger guard which is asking for an ND when the trigger finger eventually finds the trigger by accident.

If the instructor obsessively uses proper methods and explains why no matter what the gun condition the students get a clear message.

[Tamara]

At least he wasn't holding it like this...

Attachment 1904

[_JD_]

At least he wasn't holding it like this...

Attachment 1904

You're only allowed to do that if you have a gun in each hand, preferably Desert Eagles.

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[Tamara]

You're only allowed to do that...

...as long as you don't break the four rules.

FTFY