Revolvers, are they still relevant?

[Totem Polar]

^^^I do remember those Nightguards when they came out. Proof that S&W can do it if they feel so moved. Heavier than a 2" model 12 from back in the day, but a cool idea with the sights. I'd think a modern, DAO scan ti M12 could be brought down to 16-17 oz. Depends how much weight could be saved in the cylinder, I suppose.

on edit: a quick trip down wiki lane shows that the first 12s--the ones with the failing cylinders-- came in under 15oz. A robust K-snub coming in at 16-17 seems totally doable. Of course, so does a rocket car.

[Tamara]

They've already ceased production though.

No doubt because they were selling like hotcakes and Smith didn't feel like keeping up with the orders pouring in.

Sadly, the market has spoken, and it wasn't speaking in Kframese.

on edit: a quick trip down wiki lane shows that the first 12s--the ones with the failing cylinders-- came in under 15oz. A robust K-snub coming in at 16-17 seems totally doable. Of course, so does a rocket car.

All Model 12s have steel cylinders. The aluminum cylinders went away in '54, when the gun was still the "M&P Airweight", before model numbers. The biggest problem with early 12s (and all early Smith alloy-frame revolvers, well into the Sixties, was the frame cracking due to stresses from torquing the barrels in.

[jetfire]

The Nightguard guns were cool ideas, but they had problems. The 325 Nightguard liked to pull bullets, which you're dealing with a moonclip gun is a real problem. The 386 was pretty rad, but for reasons unbeknownst to me the sights were regulated for 158 grain bullets going slow instead of the more common and popular 130 grain FMJ or 125 grain JHP.

[Tamara]

The 386 was pretty rad, but for reasons unbeknownst to me the sights were regulated for 158 grain bullets going slow instead of the more common and popular 130 grain FMJ or 125 grain JHP.

Whoever's in charge of the sights on Smiths .38s thinks That '70s Show is a contemporary drama and doesn't realize that hardly anybody but handloaders shoots 158gr LRN anymore...

[David Armstrong]

I did say a little earlier my choice of words wasn't the best, but the point stands and I think most reasonable people would agree that given the choice to have to reload twice, or reload zero times to fire the same number of rounds, not having to reload is preferable. You are only looking at the probability factor and not the consequence factor....there may not be any noticeable change in the outcome of gunfights, but there sure as hell could be in the outcome of a gunfight.

Sure, if one wishes to discuss individual micro issues any single issue can frequently be important. I tend to address issues from a macro standpoint. The chances of needing to reload are slim. The chances of needing to reload twice are a fraction of a fraction. At some point we reach a point where it really doesn't matter much in the overall scheme of life.

[Tamara]

There is no doubt that revolver reloads can be practiced to proficiency, but anybody who says that they are not easier to fumble than an autopistol reload is talking through their hat.

[Totem Polar]

Whoever's in charge of the sights on Smiths .38s thinks That '70s Show is a contemporary drama and doesn't realize that hardly anybody but handloaders shoots 158gr LRN anymore...

I don't know, Tam, I'd bet that the top load loafing around inside cylinders chambered for .38 Special is still *somebody's* version of the "FBI" load, despite penetration (no pun intended) of the cognoscenti market by 110 DPX and 135 GDHP loadings. As an aside, the second-to-last S&W wheelie that I bought was a Brinks Car Co. overrun built to NYPD spec (bead blast, DAO, etc) that shot to POA with 110 gr loads. I loved everything else about that gun, but it didn't last, since the entirety of wheeldom in my safe otherwise all shoots exactly alike: as if 158 loads passed through sights welded to my retinas. I've probably shot more cheap 158 FMJ this year than cheap 124 FMJ 9mm.

And you are, per usual, correct about the designation and issues with the 12; I probably should have been more specific.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Whoever's in charge of the sights on Smiths .38s thinks That '70s Show is a contemporary drama and doesn't realize that hardly anybody but handloaders shoots 158gr LRN anymore...

"But....that's the way we've always done it."

[1986s4]

Whoever's in charge of the sights on Smiths .38s thinks That '70s Show is a contemporary drama and doesn't realize that hardly anybody but handloaders shoots 158gr LRN anymore...

Right you are! As a handloader I use 160gr RN's......

[Tamara]

I don't know, Tam, I'd bet that the top load loafing around inside cylinders chambered for .38 Special is still *somebody's* version of the "FBI" load...

True, although I was more referring to the fact that the most common range ammo today in the caliber seems to be Q4171 or AE38K or the like, probably due to the fact that it's as much as a dime a round cheaper than 158gr LRN from the big factories.