problems learning the SA part of DA/SA

[GJM]

So about ten days ago, I put my Glock 17 aside, and began shooting DA/SA -- primarily a 226R with an SRT trigger.

I feel very happy with where I am with the DA part. However, I don't feel like I am anywhere near learning the potential of the SA part. Unlike the Glock, where there is a fair amount of trigger travel before the break, there is very little take up with the SRT trigger. I also sense that my brain thinks because the SRT trigger is a fraction of the weight and travel of the DA part, I only need to give it that relative percentage of attention.

My wife and I had an 8 inch steel set up at 12 and 24 yards today. My best transitions were in the mid .60's, but I really felt like I needed .75-.85. Not sure how to speed that up, since there isn't a lot of trigger to press between targets? We were doing bill drills at 25 on an IPSC target, and between the IPSC A being narrower, and the sensitivity of the trigger, it doesn't take much to turn a shot into a C. Any suggested drills for learning the SA part are appreciated.

Near the end of the session, I did one warmed up but first FAST of the day, with the usual Filson vest, and was clean at 4.16 so it isn't like I am saying the SA is terrible. It just isn't anywhere near what I think it should be, given how short and light it is compared to the DA. I also accept that it takes a while to learn a trigger, but I want to try to streamline that learning process as much as possible.

[Mr_White]

This is just a random suggestion, a point of learning that I worked with at one time (and again recently actually.) So take it as a possible Trick Of The Day, try it and continue it or discard it or whatever.

A dry fire drill I used to do to work on trigger control was to:

Dry fire a shot at a target, and keep the trigger held to the rear.

Cycle the slide enough to reset the (Glock) trigger mech, but still holding the trigger to the rear.

Reassume my two handed grip, still holding the trigger to the rear.

Reset and press the trigger as quickly as I could, and with as little gun movement as I could. This part is the actual drill, the rest is just preparatory.

In live fire it's easier since it feels to me like there is plenty of time to reset during the gun's movement in recoil, whereas in the dry drill it feels like the gun is waiting for my dry shot the whole time.

Don't know if this will help, but I do think that drill helps me with trigger control in general, and specifically in dealing with the resetting characteristics of the trigger. And in dry fire, the sights are just sitting there staring you in the face telling you their story so it's easy to hear (well, see.)

[Tirofijo2001]

Are you running it dry like you did your Beretta? Might not help your SA pull specifically, but seems to help in general.

[CCT125US]

I like the six squares .pdf for both target / trigger type transitions. http://pistol-training.com/wp-conten.../six-1inch.pdf I am certainly not the fastest on splits, but when I am working at my given limits, I find the speed of the flip plays a large part. I certainly don't ride the reset with the P30 v3, so the speed I get away from the rear most position and back to the breaking point is important.

[Josh Runkle]

I have up on DA/SA a few years ago. I have since realized that for myself, it's not just two different trigger weights, it's also two slightly different placements of the pad of my trigger finger. Shifting from one placement to the other was very difficult for me to accomplish at high speed. (Not that my speed is even close to yours, but the principle may still apply) Are you contacting the trigger the same way from DA to SA?

[ToddG]

You're doing one of three things:

1. You're releasing the trigger farther than it needs to go during the transition and/or not prepping it aggressively enough as you bring the gun to the target. Just like resetting the trigger under recoil, you want to reset the trigger during the transition so it's ready to break as soon as you get an adequate sight picture on the next target.
2. You're dealing with some other issue (sights, grip, etc.) in transitions but attributing the slowness to the trigger.
3. Changing the position of your finger for the SA vs DA shots; I strongly recommend against this. It's one of the worst ways to induce the dreaded "DA to SA transition" and should not be at all necessary. Instead, simply learn to manipulate the trigger well in both DA and SA with one part of your trigger finger. I tend to use the inward facing surface of the tip of my finger as it gives me the most precise control over movement (at the cost of a sensation of heavier pull weight).

[Josh Runkle]

You're doing one of three things:

1. You're releasing the trigger farther than it needs to go during the transition and/or not prepping it aggressively enough as you bring the gun to the target. Just like resetting the trigger under recoil, you want to reset the trigger during the transition so it's ready to break as soon as you get an adequate sight picture on the next target.
2. You're dealing with some other issue (sights, grip, etc.) in transitions but attributing the slowness to the trigger.
3. Changing the position of your finger for the SA vs DA shots; I strongly recommend against this. It's one of the worst ways to induce the dreaded "DA to SA transition" and should not be at all necessary. Instead, simply learn to manipulate the trigger well in both DA and SA with one part of your trigger finger. I tend to use the inward facing surface of the tip of my finger as it gives me the most precise control over movement (at the cost of a sensation of heavier pull weight).

Good points!

[GJM]

All, thanks for the comments.

It is interesting that so much of DA/SA training seems to be focused on the DA or transition part. Maybe if I was shooting a 1911 recently, the SA part might be easier. The SA is definitely different than the feel of the Glock trigger.

My finger is in the same place for DA and SA, so that isn't a factor. I had a pretty good session yesterday, focusing on the SA with 25 yard Bill drills, and similar demanding shots, so perhaps it is just the normal learning curve combined with "the SA must be so easy to shoot it doesn't require any special technique mentality I approached the SA with."

I also find it interesting that my Sig 226 has a very glass rod 1911-ish SA, and the Beretta has some roll to start, which feels more familiar to me.

I could probably have asked my question as, how do 1911 shooters learn to shoot the trigger to its potential without taking all day, or crushing the trigger going too fast? TLG, and other 1911 shooters, beyond taking up the slack, do you take up none/any/much of the weight of the trigger as you are transitioning to the next target?

[ToddG]

It is interesting that so much of DA/SA training seems to be focused on the DA or transition part.

It's because, as you surmised, it's the "type" of pull that is most unfamiliar to the guys who have spent their shooting careers with (then) 1911s and (now) Glocks. They fight through the DA and then shoot as normal. But both the trigger pulls need to be practiced and, at least in my experience, the less thought and effort you put into treating them as "different" the better off you'll be. A trigger press is a trigger press. You bring the trigger back smoothly until the shot fires, you release it forward until you've cleared the reset point, and repeat.

focusing on the SA with 25 yard Bill drills, and similar demanding shots,

If your concern is the speed at which you're acquiring the next target, practicing on targets that require more precision is not going to help nearly as much as working with wide open close targets. That's especially true if you think it's a trigger manipulation issue.

TLG, and other 1911 shooters, beyond taking up the slack, do you take up none/any/much of the weight of the trigger as you are transitioning to the next target?

If you have the time to think about the difference between beginning and middle of break, you're moving the trigger too slowly.

[GJM]

In the category of this is embarrassing, about half way through my range session today, I figured out what I needed to do to work the SA trigger better at speed -- put orange paint on my front sight. I am not kidding.